Trying to see beyond the hype (and the letdown)

[hasbeen99]

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm tired of this emotional rollercoaster. The past few years, we've been pre-season darlings, only to have (what appears to be) underachievement and ineptitude crash our party.

I've only been able to watch 2 games this year, but I'm seeing many of the same issues we've debated and ranted about since 2004.

Here's the thing -- we are not an elite team. We are a second-tier team who does a good amount of overachieving. I believe that's why we're streaky. I believe that's why we can look like world beaters one week and lose to Houston the next week. Bob Papa said on Sirius this morning that elite teams are good enough that they can make mistakes and still win consistently (he mentioned the likes of Indianapolis, New England, and currently Chicago). He went on to say that the Panthers are like about 2/3 of the other teams in the NFL right now -- we're good, but not good enough to make mistakes and win. I thought that was a good take on the status of our team.

So this morning I tried as best I could to objectively grade each of our starters and most of our depth (disregarding injury history), based not only on the two games I've seen this season, but on the handful of games I've seen for the past two seasons as well. What I found is that we are severely lacking in what I'm calling "A" players. We have a ton of "B" players, and a fair number of "C"s. When I looked at it that way, the frustrations we feel and trends we see made a lot more sense.

Here's what I came up with:

QB1 – Jake Delhomme – B
HB1 – DeShaun Foster – B+
HB2 – DeAngelo Williams - ?
HB3 – Nick Goings – B
FB1 – Brad Hoover – B+
WR1 – Steve Smith – A+
WR2 – Keyshawn Johnson – A-
WR3 – Drew Carter – C+
WR4 – Keary Colbert – D
WR5 – Karl Hankton – D-
TE1 – Kris Mangum – B-
TE2 – Michael Gaines – C
TE3 – Jeff King - ?
LT1 – Travelle Wharton – B
LT2 – Jordan Gross – B-
LG1 – Mike Wahle – B+
L/RG2 – Will Montgomery - ?
C1 – Justin Hartwig - ?
C2 – Geoff Hangartner – B
RG1 – Evan Mathis – B
RT1 – Jordan Gross – B
RT2 – Jeremy Bridges – B+
LE1 – Julius Peppers – A+
RE1 - Mike Rucker - B
L/RE2 – Al Wallace – B+
DT1 – Kris Jenkins – A
DT2 – Ma’ake Kemoeatu – C
DT3 – Damione Lewis – B
DT4 – Kindal Moorehead – C
SLB1 – Thomas Davis – B-
S/WLB2 – James Anderson – C+
MLB1 – Dan Morgan – B+
MLB2 – Chris Draft – B
MLB3 – Adam Seward - C
WLB1 – Na’il Diggs – B-
CB1 – Ken Lucas – A
CB2 – Chris Gamble – B+
CB3 – Richard Marshall – B
CB4 – Christian Morton – C-
FS1 – Mike Minter – B-
F/SS2 – Collin Branch – D
SS1 – Shaun Williams – B
K – John Kasay – A
P – Jason Baker – A-

Have at it, y'all.

 

[LarryD]

knock about a letter off of each of those.

 

[hasbeen99]

knock about a letter off of each of those.

Some were admittedly optimistic, but I tried to base it off the big picture, not just last night's performance (or lack thereof).

 

[McFly41]

I agree the Panthers have been over rated, especially this year. Can't help but use the injury crutch, because our areas of concern are all littlered with injured players. Without the injuries would we be 8-0? Probably not, but I doubt we'd be 4-4.
We already had a reshuffled line that was going to need time to gel, then a couple injuries and we're starting over. They've shown improvement lately, but building that chemistry takes time. Then there's the new bodies on D where over half of those guys were not starters here last year. Injuries to Morgan and Williams slowed things down a bit. These guys are still egtting used to each other.

 

[BWI-Panther]

Hasbeen99's on the left, mine after the slash:

QB1 – Jake Delhomme – B / B
HB1 – DeShaun Foster – B+ / B- (poor vision, ball security, inconsistent)
HB2 – DeAngelo Williams - ?
HB3 – Nick Goings – B / C (only average, but versatile and a key piece)
FB1 – Brad Hoover – B+ / C- (cannot agree here - feel we need a FB upg)
WR1 – Steve Smith – A+ / A+
WR2 – Keyshawn Johnson – A- / A
WR3 – Drew Carter – C+ / C+
WR4 – Keary Colbert – D / C-
WR5 – Karl Hankton – D- / D
TE1 – Kris Mangum – B- / C- (we need to upgrade here, too)
TE2 – Michael Gaines – C / C- (too inconsistent and mental mistakes)
TE3 – Jeff King - ?
LT1 – Travelle Wharton – B / B
LT2 – Jordan Gross – B- / C (gives up too much ground - hit weight room!)
LG1 – Mike Wahle – B+ / B+
L/RG2 – Will Montgomery - ?
C1 – Justin Hartwig - ?
C2 – Geoff Hangartner – B / C+ (hard to grade higher with our run woes)
RG1 – Evan Mathis – B / C
RT1 – Jordan Gross – B / C
RT2 – Jeremy Bridges – B+ / C
LE1 – Julius Peppers – A+ / A+
L/RE2 – Al Wallace – B+ / B+
DT1 – Kris Jenkins – A / A
DT2 – Ma’ake Kemoeatu – C / C+
DT3 – Damione Lewis – B / B
DT4 – Kindal Moorehead – C / C
SLB1 – Thomas Davis – B- / C (inconsistent but still learning)
S/WLB2 – James Anderson – C+ / C
MLB1 – Dan Morgan – B+ / B
MLB2 – Chris Draft – B / C+
MLB3 – Adam Seward - C / C
WLB1 – Na’il Diggs – B- / C
CB1 – Ken Lucas – A / B (was an A last year)
CB2 – Chris Gamble – B+ / B+
CB3 – Richard Marshall – B / B
CB4 – Christian Morton – C- / C
FS1 – Mike Minter – B- / D (slow - when has he last made a play???)
F/SS2 – Collin Branch – D / C
SS1 – Shaun Williams – B / C (started strong, but has declined - injured?)
K – John Kasay – A / A
P – Jason Baker – A- / A

 

[CelticCat]

Pep is the only one id give an A grade so far this season. Kasay too maybe, and Baker hasnt done much wrong at all either, but im getting off point.

While Smitty definately has A++ in him, he's not quite there yet. Still dropping some easy receptions he should be making.

Keyshauns kinda done the same thing. He's solid, but hasnt been spectacular.

Lucas has been in and out too much. And honestly, whether its his injuries or not, he's not playing as well as he was.

Jenkins is slowly getting back to form. Needs to stop jumping offsides tho. He's getting good for 1 a game these days.

 

[Piper]

Our only A players are Smith and Peppers. A players are elite players. Maybe you throw Kasay in their.

Jenks looks like that A player from time to time. Kemo deserves a D minus.

 

[luchadore]

QB1 – Jake Delhomme – B = I love his attitude but he needs to take better care of the football and stop keying on one guy for a whole drive.
HB1 – DeShaun Foster – B- = Needs to show better hands, get better picking up the blitz and just fight a little harder on third down.
HB2 – DeAngelo Williams - C+ = I like what i have seen so far.
HB3 – Nick Goings – C= Great backup and utility guy.
FB1 – Brad Hoover – C+= Solid starter they should use him a little more in goal line
WR1 – Steve Smith – A+ = 2nd only to Peppers in the best Panther ever award.
WR2 – Keyshawn Johnson – A = I can't say anything bad about him other than please no more drops this year.
WR3 – Drew Carter – C= Needs to show he is not a one trick pony.
WR4 – Keary Colbert – D-= Probably does not deserve a grade this high.
WR5 – Karl Hankton – F= As a wide reciever but a strong B as a special teamer.
TE1 – Kris Mangum – C = Just good enough to beat out the other turds.
TE2 – Michael Gaines – D = Wanna be Wiggins.
TE3 – Jeff King - F = Wasted pick.
LT1 – Travelle Wharton – C+= I liked him better at guard.
LT2 – Jordan Gross – B = I personally think he has looked pretty good this year at LT.
LG1 – Mike Wahle – B = I expected him to be a stronger run blocker.
L/RG2 – Will Montgomery - D= Decent backup
C1 – Justin Hartwig - C -= Not impressed.
C2 – Geoff Hangartner – B = At this point has way out played Hartwig and may end up being one of our best linemen.
RG1 – Evan Mathis – C = He has the size and strength you look for but he seems to be abit of a pussy.
RT1 – Jordan Gross – C+ = I like him better at left tackle.
RT2 – Jeremy Bridges – B- = Damn when did he learn to play if memory serves me this guy sucked before he came here.
LE1 – Julius Peppers – A+ = By far the best player to ever wear a Panthers Jersey
L/RE2 – Al Wallace – C+ = Great backup decent as a starter.
DT1 – Kris Jenkins – B = Stop making mental errors and I will give him an A.
DT2 – Ma’ake Kemoeatu – C = Missing that island meanstreak.
DT3 – Damione Lewis – B = He has alot more heart than I thought he would pleasant surprise.
DT4 – Kindal Moorehead – C- = Good backup thats about it.
SLB1 – Thomas Davis – C+ = He is getting better week by week.
S/WLB2 – James Anderson – C- = Not enough to go on yet.
MLB1 – Dan Morgan – A- = If he could only stay healthy A+.
MLB2 – Chris Draft – B = I like his motor and his attitude seems to be a bit of an overachiever.
MLB3 – Adam Seward - D = I think there is alot to work with but time will tell.
WLB1 – Na’il Diggs – C-= I don't really know what it is but there is just something missing with his game.
CB1 – Ken Lucas – A - I really like the way he fits with the system we run on the downside I dont really care for the system we run.
CB2 – Chris Gamble – B = I am under the impression our coaching staff does not play to his strengths.
CB3 – Richard Marshall – B = Shows alot of promise and I love his Attitude.
CB4 – Christian Morton – F = What has he done?
FS1 – Mike Minter – C+= His age is starting to show.
F/SS2 – Collin Branch – ? = He has to play a complete series for me to give a fair grade.
SS1 – Shaun Williams – C = Makes some plays but just is not that impressive in pass coverage.
K – John Kasay – A = Would be an A+ if our coaching staff would stop putting him to kick (58 yarders or longer)
P – Jason Baker – A = I personally have not noticed a drop off since Todd left.

 

[lde]

I would give Hankton a C as a ST.

On what basis are you not impressed with Hartwig? He was still recovering from surgery when he played in preseason and week 1.

The 3 plays he got in Sunday, he looked like he was pushing people around pretty good. Of course, it was trash time, but I just don't understand how you can be not impressed when the coaches won't play him, because they are SO satisfied with the OL.

 

[luchadore]

"The 3 plays he got in Sunday, he looked like he was pushing people around pretty good. Of course, it was trash time, but I just don't understand how you can be not impressed when the coaches won't play him, because they are SO satisfied with the OL."


Well I sure can't be be impressed with 3 plays during trash time. To me he just doesn't get the same push that Hangartner does, granted he is coming off an injury but what he has done is all I have to go on.