Startin' or Departin'?

[T_Schroll]

last Sunday's lineup...Who stays or who goes this offseason? I'll throw Smith in there for Hankton and Buckner for Burton just for discussions sake.

Offense
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QB Peete-nope, it's been downhill since game three with a brief flicker of hope in the Tampa game , see ya, maybe to the other two guys also. Fasani may stick.

FB Hoover-crowd favorite, but can he be as an effective blocker as we need? Gets a reprevive

RB Smith-3.5 yds/carry, 67yds/game. Good early, has worn down since. There's got to be some one better out there. Keep him as a backup.

WR Muhammad-Mr. Butterfingers, nowhere near worth his nearly 6 million dollar cap hit next year. The Me First attitude has become a turnoff also. Trade Bait, IMHO.

WR Smith-Ol' Suckerpunch Steve. To be honest, his overall value had diminished before the fight. He's gone from Pro Bowl Kick Returner to over rated WR. He's gotten so bad on kicks he's been benched. If he stays, he should concentrate on kick returns where he was a weapon instead of being an also ran WR.

TE Walls-it hurts to even type this. He needs to retire or go to a team that will at least give him an opportunity to be part of the offense. It's been a great ride Wesley, I'll wait on your statue to be erected next to Sam. You deserve it, and you deserve better from a franchise you helped put on the map. Gone.

RT Tuten-oh Dear God no, get the Hell out of here. Gone

RG Donnalley-Old and not too expensive considering the going rate these days. Maybe one more year unless we get a better alternative in the Draft or FA. Stay of Execution

C Mitchell-How long do his creeky knees hold up? I'll say hang on to him, but we need a backup that can take over the position in a few more years. Stays.

LG Nesbitt-looks like he's regressed a bit this year after coming on strong last year. Look to upgrade, stays as a backup.

LT Steussie-With his rather hefty cap hit (5+ mill) he may be a goner. With a pay cut he stays.


Defense
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DE Rucker-Keeper

DT Buckner-he's got another year, keep him and draft a guy to groom behind him

DT Jenkins-turning into a stud, GS looks good with this pick

DE Peppers-no brainer

OLB Fields-keep him and clone him

MLB Morgan-as good as his play has been injury concerns are beginning to creep in and I don't see Witherspoon as capable as the backup. Possible trade bait as much as I hate to say it.

OLB Navies-once again he's being hampered by injuries, we can upgrade, Witherspoon fits better here than MLB. He walks in FA.

CB Cousin-improvement over Anderson and Hitchcock IMHO, he sticks, may go to nickel if we can sign or draft some one better

CB Howard-a work in progress, still room for improvement, Stays

S Minter-gotta keep him, makes crushing hits, but gets toasted every now and again. Better CB's would help.

S Grant, improving, but still too much hit or miss. He's got to improve and eliminate stupid mistakes. Keep him

P Sauerbrun-how many teams have a punter who's the best hitter on the team? Keep him.

PK Graham-,maybe the answer, maybe not. Kasay's seen his better days. Maybe we should have kept Nedney around. 50/50 he stays.

Comments? Suggestions? Bitching or moaning?

 

[Piper]

QB Peete - Goes. Can't keep healthy. Weinke goes.

>>FB Hoover- He's a RFA? Can't remember. Stays cheap, but we may look to upgrade. Good reciever, but we could use a real FB. Not many out there though. Stays as H-back.


>>RB Smith- Depends on who is available. If we can get a younger mid to low priced FA and a pick, he goes.


>> WR Muhammad- I'd like to see him stay. I'd like to bring in a a pic and a FA. I don't see the lack of effort, at least not compared to everyone else He is what he is. A good physical possession reciever with an injury history, and 6 million is 6 million. Best on the team now, and I don't see the value of addition by subtraction.

WR Smith- Pre-fight, I'd like to see him back as a 4th reciever/punt returner. I think he's hated, for good reason. We might be able to trade him.

Backups all go. Hankton will fight to stay as a special teamer.

At least 3 new faces here, and that's with Moose staying.

>>TE Walls - Build the statue. Retire.



>>RT Tuten- Bye

>>RG Donnalley- Depends on what's available. I'd keep him through camp at least. Ask him for the pay cut.

>>C Mitchell- Stays. Creaky knees?

>>LG Nesbitt- Don't think he's Fox's guy. Goes. Too bad, he's better than Jeno with just one leg.

>>LT Steussie- Stays. He's a good Tackle. Even with a bad game last week, I don't think he's given up half the sacks Jones gave up in twice the number of games. He won't stay around forever though, so we will have to think about a replacement. It's enough to consider moving him to the right side and looking at LT, sometime soon. This year or next.





Defense
OLB is a need. Withspoon gets abused in coverage. Navies has been decent. Not a playmaker, but he plays his responsibility. I don't want to spend a lot of money to keep someone with his injury history.

All of our other defensive starters under contract stay on the team. Lets' not get reactionary. We don't have the talent or picks, or THAT much cap room to do otherwise. There's no one killing us cap wise in the back 7 that has to be a Pro Bowler or go. No Doug Evans. We can upgrade. Minter has been disappointing, playing through injury. Stays. Giblet of course goes.

We need depth. I'd get another DT somewhere, we are thin. Need another horse in the secondary. I'd like to see Howard get pushed if we can.


OK, 3 new WR, at least 1 guard, at least 1 Tackle, 2 new RB, 1 new FB. 2 QB. CB, OLB, and DT are defensive needs. That's 13 new players.


Let me check. No, we don't have the talent to go cutting what limited, if flawed talent we have.

We've got some cap space, we've got the draft, we build.



]

 

[magnus]

Agreed on both Muhammad and Steussie. Both could go, Steussie doesn't make as much free money, but they both can go. Shouldn't, though. Getting a talented WR like Moose may stop making him act like the bored smart kid in remedial spelling, and Steussie's too valuable to lose this year. As you say, we'd have far too many holes to fill.

Which also makes me wonder if the team would want to keep Mangum, and I fear it'll be so, as a starter. They'll hopefully keep Wiggins, and Heinrich will stay. And we'll suck at TE, a spot we really don't seem to want to use. To me, the first thing I learned strategically about offenses is that the TE can be your most versatile weapon, especially with a running team. Walls is a bad fit for this O, and Mangum's just not talented enough to take time away, but I fear that we'll just never use the TE well enough and Mangum will be deemed enough to start.

Lamar? I wouldn't replace him. He's running hard. A good blocking FB and a good punishing LG will make him look good - he's very Emmitt of three years ago - picks his hole well, takes contact at a good angle and gets you good honest yards. I don't know if I'd be totally happy with the backup situation - Brown's situationally very good, but if Lamar goes down he's not the one carrying the load. I keep thinking Hoover in this O should be a RB not a FB, and that'd probably clear up backup and give us the ability to see what we have in Foster, Brown, and others one more season while Smith beats himself up for a losing team.

On the other hand, Hoover's not at RB for a reason, and I don't expect that to happen. And I'm not to be confused with any of the guys who unabashedly tout Hoover. I do like those guys, though, he does have talent and it's nice to think that there are players out there who will make people root for this team. I'd love to have a star Gamecock player around here to harness the energy of their fans.

 

[Piper]

If we get rid of Stuessie, we better have a plan for both tackle positions. And I don’t mean Pettigout and a RT pick in round 3.


A far more effective, and cheaper (taking in consideration Todd's bonus money), way to upgrade both spots is to get a Kennedy or something for the left side and moving Todd over.

 

[magnus]

Originally posted by Piper
If we get rid of Stuessie, we better have a plan for both tackle positions. And I don’t mean Pettigout and a RT pick in round 3.


A far more effective, and cheaper (taking in consideration Todd's bonus money), way to upgrade both spots is to get a Kennedy or something for the left side and moving Todd over.

Yeah, chances are that's what the staff would do - Pettitgout and a pick. That's not enough. If we're looking to rid ourselves of Todd we oughta wait a year, add a vet, and add a pick.
I dont' really care either way for Pettitgout, but I guess he's the level of player we should be expecting to get in FA.

 

[panthersrool]

Offense, offense, offense. With a Defense ranked in the top 10, we need to just try to keep that ball rolling. All I'm worried about doing on that side of the ball is keep our current group together, maybe add a cheap CB. On the offensive side of the ball, I think this draft offers 3 dynamic playmakers on offense:

Byron Leftwich
Charles Rogers
Willis McGahee

Gotta get one of the three. As high as we are drafting, that shouldn't be too much to ask. I also listed them in order of preference of who I'd want the most. I'm not at all opposed to trading up a couple of spots if need be to grab Leftwich, who is the closest thing to a can't miss QB in this draft. I just look at the way that Vick has transformed the Atlanta franchise, and how Houston seems to get better every week with Carr at the helm, and it really makes you realize what a top-notch QB can do for a franchise. I'm sick of watching the Panthers fiddle fuck their way on their long journey to the mediocre (and worse). We drafted our playmaker on defense last year, now we need the same on offense next year. Leftwich is the only player in this draft that I beleive can really help this franchise turn the corner.
If for some reason we can't get Leftwich, then I'm down with Rogers or McGahee, as the other 2 surefire playmakers on offense. Oh, BTW, in case you haven't heard, another potential FA WR has bitten the proverbial dust:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/2002/1125/1466487.html

 

[hasbeens99]

Let me preface this by reminding all of you I haven't seen a Panthers game all season, nor have I even listened to more than about 20 minutes of game time.

Offense
----------
QB Peete - Yes. Doesn't start, or at least not for long. I really don't see how we don't bring in a starting caliber FA quarterback this offseason. Weinke is gone. Trade him if you can, cut him if you must. Fasani stays as the 3rd QB.

FB Hoover - Starts. Fox & Co. might bring in a little competition for him, but I think Brad is our starter next season. I also think with another offseason and his work ethic, he'll be better.

RB Smith - Lamar stays. The original plan was for Foster to overtake Smith. Until I hear otherwise, I'm hoping he still can. Foster could still be a beast in this offense, but he'll need more rotation than your average starting back. Lamar can do that for us well.

WR Muhammad - From what I've read, Moose has dropped at least 40% of the passes thrown at him this year. 1999 was a fluke. He can't stay healthy for a whole season, he's overpaid and overhyped. If he stays, he has to restructure his contract and should be our #2 receiver at best. Otherwise, trade him for picks.

WR Smith - Steve Smith can still be a Pro Bowl KR, IMO. He's not a #2 WR, though. If he plays WR at all, it should be no higher than #3, where he could be effective. I think his attitude and disciplinary problems can be handled by the team.

TE Walls - Departs. Wesley is two seasons past being an effective starting TE. Treat him right and retire him good.

RT Tuten - Departs. To poor for a starter, too rich for a backup.

RG Donnalley - Starts. Kevin is a solid player who, judging by his training camp diary is thankful to still be playing. Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

C Mitchell - Starts. After 4 weeks, ESPN was calling this guy a Pro Bowler. May be our best offensive lineman.

LG Nesbit - Starts. Has proven he's at least the second best guard on the team.

LT Steussie - Starts, after restructuring. Hopefully he will. Otherwise, he may be released. On second thought, though, we might as well keep him. We'll pay that much for a good LT in free agency anyway.


Defense
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RDE Rucker - Starts. Mike is one of the best pass rushing ends no one has heard of. And he's not terribly expensive.

DT Buckner - Starts.

DT Jenkins - Starts. Kris could easily be in Honolulu in February next year behind Sapp and Corey Simon.

LDE Peppers - Ya think?

OLB Fields - Starts. Best OLB on the team, by far. If you consider durability, best LB on the team.

MLB Morgan - Starts. Fox will agree it's worth another season to try to figure out a way to keep Dan healthy. He's that good.

OLB Navies - Starts. I was hoping Witherspoon would have taken Hannibal's job by now, but it's not to be. At the very least, Hannibal would be a decent backup. I'll give him that much.

CB Cousin - Starts. Best corner on the team.

CB Howard - Starts -- for now. It will be interesting to see if Terry Fair is re-signed and can take the job away. Dante Wesley should retain the nickel spot.

SS Minter - Mike has really disappointed me this year. Doesn't seem like he's made too many plays, and has made several mental mistakes he's not really known for. Again, we don't have anyone in the wings who can take over for him yet. He starts, unless we fall into a surprise SS in free agency.

FS Grant - Starts. With another offseason with DB coach Rod Perry, Deon's mental game should continue to improve. His physical game seems like it's right on track.

P Sauerbrun - Starts. Will be Carolina's only Pro Bowler this year.

PK Graham - Kasay's gone. Whether Shayne stays depends on how he does for the rest of the season. Either way, I'm sure competition will be brought in during the offseason. Cortez should be free from SF this year...

 

[Piper]

Forget about 2 steps forward, three steps back. That’d be two steps back, and another two steps back.

Getting that vet, and then getting a RT/G type that can challenge, that would set us up nicely.

 

[Shocker]

I wouldn't cut anyone on defense. Minter has played fine IMO - its just that so much pressure has been put on the defense.

Interestingly enough...

If we draft a Charles Rogers and get back a healthy Foster we are a different offensive team entirely. Thats not signing ANYONE ESLE AT ALL.

Lets give Fox some time here. He will get it turned around. Defense is already very good when the offense doesn't put them in huge holes. (Atlanta notwithstanding)

 

[VOR]

Peete'll be back if he wants to be. You have his significance all wrong, he's not supposed to be the starter winky was. Pete is the 2nd, 3rd stringer that comes in to pull out a game a few times a season. He's shown that he can do that easily if the other team doesn't have any film on him. Off the bench 3 or 4 times a season he's valuable. If he wants to be here why not keep him around for another year or two, he's got experience to share and can still take snaps, and he falls into the background with ease. We need Dorsey.