Religion and Science: Finding the Common Ground

[LarryD]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/opinion/23wright.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

There are atheists who go beyond declaring personal disbelief in God and insist that any form of god-talk, any notion of higher purpose, is incompatible with a scientific worldview. And there are religious believers who insist that evolution can’t fully account for the creation of human beings.

I bring good news! These two warring groups have more in common than they realize. And, no, it isn’t just that they’re both wrong. It’s that they’re wrong for the same reason. Oddly, an underestimation of natural selection’s creative power clouds the vision not just of the intensely religious but also of the militantly atheistic.

If both groups were to truly accept that power, the landscape might look different. Believers could scale back their conception of God’s role in creation, and atheists could accept that some notions of “higher purpose” are compatible with scientific materialism. And the two might learn to get along.

 

[hasbeen99]

In my own research, the conclusions I reached turned out to be a pretty nice marriage between creationism and Darwinist evolution. But I agree with the writer that there remains, on both sides, an almost militant group who adhere to the traditional interpretations of their respective beliefs. And I also think they do so out of prejudice far more than logic.

 

[LarryD]

What is interesting is that the middle ground is the "moral sense" of our universe, in that the universe builds and rewards organisms that cooperate with one another.

 

[BigVito]

What is interesting is that the middle ground is the "moral sense" of our universe, in that the universe builds and rewards organisms that cooperate with one another.

Take a look at social evolution. Work is really just starting in the field. Pretty fascinating stuff and has been discussed here before in some of the "Good vs Evil" and morality threads.

 

[84niner]

LarryD..."common ground"-give me a break...there is "no grey area". It's not complicated at all...you either believe the Bible as the word of God or not. There's nothing scientific about the creation of human beings and as far as evolution goes tell me or prove to me there were cave men. You know you can't because these cave men were apes. This earth is millions of years old and on the 6th day God created man and there were apes about and also dinosaurs, etc. Also, you got me on the "moral sense" of our universe thing...wow!

Hasdbeen99...There you go again with your traditional teachings. Example: Your conclusion "that it turned out a pretty nice marriage between creationism and Darwinest evolution. Hassbeen99-If you truly know God's word then you know that there is no such thing as evolution.

Big Vito...Your statement "Take a look at social evolution". Being an athiest I don't know if you know enough of the word to have a debate on this subject with you. Do you know enough and understand the Word to know that human nature has been the same since the beginning of time? Today, we have political correctness as vogue. What is accepted today...50 years ago many immorals would have been tarred and feathered and run out of town. Our youth today know very little about scripture. Which leads me to ask you...do you understand the phrase "The generation of the fig tree"? If you do then you will know this generation (you and me) is soon coming to an end. Why? because there is a famine in the land and that famine is teaching truth/word.

 

[Ignatowski]

LarryD..."common ground"-give me a break...there is "no grey area". It's not complicated at all...you either believe the Bible as the word of God or not. There's nothing scientific about the creation of human beings and as far as evolution goes tell me or prove to me there were cave men. You know you can't because these cave men were apes. This earth is millions of years old and on the 6th day God created man and there were apes about and also dinosaurs, etc. Also, you got me on the "moral sense" of our universe thing...wow!

Hasdbeen99...There you go again with your traditional teachings. Example: Your conclusion "that it turned out a pretty nice marriage between creationism and Darwinest evolution. Hassbeen99-If you truly know God's word then you know that there is no such thing as evolution.

Big Vito...Your statement "Take a look at social evolution". Being an athiest I don't know if you know enough of the word to have a debate on this subject with you. Do you know enough and understand the Word to know that human nature has been the same since the beginning of time? Today, we have political correctness as vogue. What is accepted today...50 years ago many immorals would have been tarred and feathered and run out of town. Our youth today know very little about scripture. Which leads me to ask you...do you understand the phrase "The generation of the fig tree"? If you do then you will know this generation (you and me) is soon coming to an end. Why? because there is a famine in the land and that famine is teaching truth/word.

wow

 

[BigVito]

LarryD..."common ground"-give me a break...there is "no grey area". It's not complicated at all...you either believe the Bible as the word of God or not. There's nothing scientific about the creation of human beings and as far as evolution goes tell me or prove to me there were cave men. You know you can't because these cave men were apes. This earth is millions of years old and on the 6th day God created man and there were apes about and also dinosaurs, etc. Also, you got me on the "moral sense" of our universe thing...wow!

Hasdbeen99...There you go again with your traditional teachings. Example: Your conclusion "that it turned out a pretty nice marriage between creationism and Darwinest evolution. Hassbeen99-If you truly know God's word then you know that there is no such thing as evolution.

Big Vito...Your statement "Take a look at social evolution". Being an athiest I don't know if you know enough of the word to have a debate on this subject with you. Do you know enough and understand the Word to know that human nature has been the same since the beginning of time? Today, we have political correctness as vogue. What is accepted today...50 years ago many immorals would have been tarred and feathered and run out of town. Our youth today know very little about scripture. Which leads me to ask you...do you understand the phrase "The generation of the fig tree"? If you do then you will know this generation (you and me) is soon coming to an end. Why? because there is a famine in the land and that famine is teaching truth/word.

I know enough to know that a lot of generations of fig trees have come and gone since the time of Jesus. I also understand that the generation was probably meant for the lifetime of the disciples but has since been bastardized by Christian apolgetics to mean anything from that, to the birth of Israel, to the rebuilding of the Temple, to any various and sundry things that explain that Jesus really didn't mean what he is quoted as saying in Matthew. The version in Luke doesn't specify fig trees at all but "all the trees."

If you'd like I can pull out my trusty Word and we can discuss how metaphor confused for fact is one of the great failings of fundementalist Christianity. To me, it seems that too many folks become so blinded by the "trees" that they can't see the beauty of the forest.

What it comes down to, 84, is that I can respect the Holy Bible as a collection of wisdom and a very narrowly focused history but still not feel it is of divine inspiration. Are there certain universal truths contained in it that if everyone lived by would make the world a better place? Sure.

In reality, having a debate with someone that follows the mantra "The Bible Says It! I Believe It! That Settles It!" would be about as useful as teaching a dog card tricks.

 

[84niner]

I know enough to know that a lot of generations of fig trees have come and gone since the time of Jesus. I also understand that the generation was probably meant for the lifetime of the disciples but has since been bastardized by Christian apolgetics to mean anything from that, to the birth of Israel, to the rebuilding of the Temple, to any various and sundry things that explain that Jesus really didn't mean what he is quoted as saying in Matthew. The version in Luke doesn't specify fig trees at all but "all the trees."

If you'd like I can pull out my trusty Word and we can discuss how metaphor confused for fact is one of the great failings of fundementalist Christianity. To me, it seems that too many folks become so blinded by the "trees" that they can't see the beauty of the forest.

What it comes down to, 84, is that I can respect the Holy Bible as a collection of wisdom and a very narrowly focused history but still not feel it is of divine inspiration. Are there certain universal truths contained in it that if everyone lived by would make the world a better place? Sure.

In reality, having a debate with someone that follows the mantra "The Bible Says It! I Believe It! That Settles It!" would be about as useful as teaching a dog card tricks.

Since you don't know the parable of the fig tree...then I can't explain or have enough space to say to you that if you don't know this one parable then I would just be wasting my and your time. What you just said to me is very sad indeed.

Just remember every thing you say and do is written down in the Book of Life. When you get there... you then will understand.

 

[LarryD]

hrm.

84, why are you posting in this thread? you've already made up your mind and you're doing nothing but insulting someone who has a different belief than you. honestly, it's that attitude that gives any organized religion a bad name.

 

[BigVito]

Since you don't know the parable of the fig tree...then I can't explain or have enough space to say to you that if you don't know this one parable then I would just be wasting my and your time. What you just said to me is very sad indeed.

Just remember every thing you say and do is written down in the Book of Life. When you get there... you then will understand.

Sorry, 84. Are you discussing the parable from Luke or the "generation of a fig tree" from I think, Matthew? Maybe you are mixing up what your point really is?