Offensive Line Choices

[Mr. Scot]

Historically, the Panthers tend to keep nine offensive linemen on their annual roster. Going into the start of this offseason, it looked quite possible that the team might head into next season with a lineup ready made from last season’s holdovers.

C Justin Hartwig
C Geoff Hangartner

G Mike Wahle
G Evan Mathis
G Will Montgomery

T Jordan Gross
T Travelle Wharton
T Jeremy Bridges
T Rashad Butler

As the offseason has progressed though, that’s been changed up a bit. There was the drafting of Ryan Kalil when the high pick of an O-Line guy wasn’t something most expected. Kalil was the best available player and the team couldn’t pass him up. So now you have to figure him into the mix at someone’s expense.

Add in that in the last day or so, Darin Gantt had this blurb in his article about the Donovin Darius speculation:

Backup offensive lineman D'Anthony Batiste has been released from the hospital and is recovering from an infection which cost him the last week of summer school. Assuming he's physically the same guy he was at the beginning of June, Batiste is looking like a guy who's cemented a roster spot. The team likes his explosives, and since he got a lot of work at both the tackle and guard positions this summer only makes him more valuable to them.

So if Gantt’s right, you have another guy who might take a roster spot from someone that you could have expected to stick around based on last year.

Rounding out the current roster, you have these guys of whom not much is expected, but then you never know who might surprise:

G Nathan Bennett
G Rueben Riley
G Steve Sciullo
T Eric Graham
T Theodoric Watson

With all this in mind (and realizing anything can happen between now and the season opener) which nine Big Uglys do you keep out of the current crop?

 

[magnus]

could be 10. With the practice squad there's no reason to do so, but if a player shows some good stuff, he could make 10.

OT is cut and dry, IMO. Wharton/Butler, Gross/Bridges. If Bridges is still at G, there's a whole different situation, and it'd be unfortunate, because we're deeper at G/C than OT.

Hangartner can only play center, IMO. Montgomery can do either, but he's not as invested - lower pick, played less. Both players have that versatility, but at a position where they already have two centers who could start at guard and be more versatile. So of the four guys who can play center, I'd expect three to make it - the fourth goes. Not a huge loss, but I like Montgomery better, and I don't see that happening.

Of course, if Hartwig is at RG, Kalil at C, Montgomery and Hangartner are the backups at LG and C, respectively.

I know that they like Bridges, and he's probably a better guard than Mathis. But Mathis is the incumbent, and it seems like he'll get lost in the shuffle without a real fight. I'd rather have Hartwig in there, and Mathis should earn it if he gets it (I don't see it happening), but he's already an after thought. There's always the option that Mathis gets cut, Bridges or Hartwig start, and we're cutting guard depth to allow us to be lacking at OT.




FWIMFW, no one who couldn't dress last year IMO has cemented a roster spot. I guess Butler is as close as that comes, and we need him. Only way I see Batiste making it is if they
*keep both Hartwig and Kalil at C
*have Bridges at RG, and Mathis collapses
*Batiste shows to be a good tackle
*injury

Batiste isn't a better tackle than Bridges. Bridges would have to go to guard, which is where I'd rather him not be, since I've said it a billion times by now.

If it were me?

LT Wharton Butler
LG Wahle Montgomery
C Kalil Hangartner
RG Hartwig Mathis
RT Gross Bridges

That's 10, and a fairly solid 10. You could get by with an active 8 of the starting 5, Bridges for G/T versatility, the better C between Montgomery/Hangartner, and the better player between Butler and Mathis. Of course, you might not even need the active backup center, considering you have two on the field; then you'd just activate the better guard, and if one of the backup centers is that guy, bonus. If you were going with an active 9, which is more traditional, you'd probably practice squad Montgomery. I think Hangartner played too much to be taxi squad.


All of it gets turned on its head if we have an injury, but unless it's at OT and we don't have the depth (which we may not), we're ready for the other contingencies. There's always the option that they make Kalil sit the year, which would be unfortunate IMO, especially if it pulls Bridges down inside (this may be why Bridges is inside), which leaves us with

LT Wharton/Butler
LG Wahle/Montgomery
C Hartwig/Kalil
RG Butler/Mathis
RT Gross/?

 

[Mr. Scot]

I could see ten. I'm going with nine based on history and figuring on only the regular roster.

I'd agree that the tackle positions are fairly settled. All the battles are on the interior.

I'm a bigger fan of Mathis than a lot of folks are too.

Been hearing good stuff about Batiste since last year. Figured he'd end up as one of the guys that got cut who I'd wish we could have kept. Now I'm not so sure where he ends up.

Granted, it's a good dilemma to have.

 

[Mr. Scot]

By the way Mags, you chose a scenario that will make Justin Hartwig grumpy

 

[Collin]

By the way Mags, you chose a scenario that will make Justin Hartwig grumpy

How do you figure? Hartwig hasn't always been a center.


I would probably keep ten as well, but if forced to choose nine, Hangartner would likely be the odd man out. I don't see that happening, though, which means Mathis or Montgomery, and right now I'm guessing Mathis might be the one to get cut.

 

[magnus]

By the way Mags, you chose a scenario that will make Justin Hartwig grumpy

how's that? Fighting Kalil for C? IMO, if both are at C, it's because they don't want to push Kalil out there. They did it with Wharton at LT his first year, before the need at G became so dire. I'd actually say they still held him up for a bit after the need became big.

And in that scenario, I have a hard time believing they'd start Hangartner and Hartwig. I couldn't see Kalil losing to Hangartner.

I could see ten. I'm going with nine based on history and figuring on only the regular roster.

It'll probably have to do with what they do at RB/FB. they have three good RBs, Hoover, and Goings. Not that Goings isn't a good back, but there's always the idea of whether he's listed at FB, and if he's at RB for once, whether we add a FB to the 53. Also, with WR being up in the air, we could carry 5 there too. That's 26 on O, plus 3 specialists on ST, leaves 24 for the D. We've carried a lot more on D than that in the past.

Been hearing good stuff about Batiste since last year. Figured he'd end up as one of the guys that got cut who I'd wish we could have kept. Now I'm not so sure where he ends up.

Only thing I remember is being a little stunned we added a bigger guard to the lineup when we did, and then he got in trouble with the law.

 

[Mr. Scot]

I'm going off of how Hartwig sounded in the Panthers.com article. He essentially says he'd move to guard and he understands the team has to do what's best, but he doesn't sound too thrilled about it.

“I know that they did what was best for the team,” he said. “Who knows what will happen moving forward, but I know that I’m a good player in this League and I can play a few positions. I’d like to play center, but if they decide to move me, then it is what it is.”

Hartwig played guard as a rookie with the Tennessee Titans in 2002 before earning the starting center job during the 2003 preseason. In college, he was a three-year starter at tackle for Kansas.

“I’ll adapt,” he said. “I’ve played guard before. I don’t really know what’s going to happen, but I’m playing center right now and getting all the calls in the new offense down, and I’m really happy with the offense and the direction that we’re going.”

At this point, haven't really looked at the rest of the team. I'd probably need to do that to get a sense of how many linemen I expect we'll keep. For now, nine is just for sake of discussion.

No idea if Gantt is right about Batiste, and it's predicated on him returning to form. Makes for interesting discussion though.

 

[Collin]

No idea if Gantt is right about Batiste

It's Gantt.

 

[presidence99]

Scout.com said Mathis was getting some work at tackle.

 

[stratocatter]

Wouldn't kill me if they put Kalil behind Hartwig (who still has to prove he can stay healthy), but we're paying Hartwig good enough he shouldn't mind switching.

I don't feel like I know enough to predict anything yet, given the circumstances. Can't wait for some preseason games to see where we're at with the run game in this new offense. I'm more hopeful this year than the last couple.