Moose thoughts / Gardner

[meatpile]

Glass half full:

If Moose had come up to be re-signed after 2002 or 2003, he wouldn't have commanded much $$, and many of us would have not cared for him due to his inconsistencies. There were alot of complaints about moose The last year of Siefert and the first year of Fox (if not the first 2.5 years of Fox).

Those years were marked by inconsistency on alot of levels - coaching and quarterback primarily, but also lacked a run game, as well as a strong secondary target (hayes).

Moose always seemed to drop the crucial easy catches. Real or perceived.

Gardner:

Gardner had 3 Head coaches in 4 years - all very different. I CANNOT COUNT how many starting quarterbacks he played with - Banks, Matthews, Whiffle, Brunell, Ramsey - there had to be more. None of them were any good. Multiple position coaches, multiple offensive coordinators.

What skilled payer has flourished for the skins - consistently - over the past 4 years? I think it's zero. Does this mean they have no talent? I don't think so.

I think Gardner might be the biggest pickup in our division this offseason. He might be one of the biggest in the NFL. These are the guys that bailed on Davis.

 

[QueenCityHillbilly]

These are the guys that bailed on Davis.

Not really, that was all Spurrier who didn't think he needed a running game.

What skilled payer has flourished for the skins - consistently - over the past 4 years? I think it's zero.

Very much agreed. Everyone there has consistently sucked ass except for Arrington when he's healthy and perhaps Champ Bailey.

 

[meatpile]

Not really, that was all Spurrier who didn't think he needed a running game.
Very much agreed. Everyone there has consistently sucked ass except for Arrington when he's healthy and perhaps Champ Bailey.

Arrington has basically said he wants out, as did Davis, as did Gardner, and they bailed on Champ Bailey.

 

[Thelt]

Time will tell. Gardner looks to have a lot of talent if he can focus he may be very good.

 

[meatpile]

Time will tell. Gardner looks to have a lot of talent if he can focus he may be very good.

Definitely. If anyone can milk it out of him, it's Richard Williamson.

I still wonder how we'll have the active roster this year - what with only carrying 4 receivers on gameday, one of whom is Hankton.

 

[magnus]

No doubt, if the Panthers only want a blocker and a redzone threat at the other WR, better to pay Gardner $1 mil than Moose $5. Totally agree there and applaud the move. Just as, if Moose was told that he'd go back to blocking and 2-3 balls per game at most, I wouldn't blame him for saying that he wants to go somewhere where he can produce. I wouldn't have picked the QB he did, but he'll be productive there.



And certainly, he wasn't great about an occasional drop (the criticism, though, IMO is tempered by the fact that Smitty dropped more in 03, Colbert more in 04). The Atlanta thing was horribly timed and unfortunate.


I do think it bizarre that I can remember people pissing and moaning about Muhammad way back, too. 1998, 1999, when he was coming up. When he was a Pro Bowler, when he led the league in catches.

 

[Thelt]

I can remember a couple of bad drops in 2001 but I guess the whole offense sucked anyway. I also remember that he dropped a touchdown pass from Jeff Lewis against the Chargers in the next to the last game of 2000. Lewis certainly could have used the confidence booster from that.

Moose was a good wideout and he did a lot for this franchise. I hope he retires as a panther and that we honor him in some way. All that being said though, the Bears paid too much for him.

Gardner has the potential to be very good. I think he is capable of more than blocking and catching 2-3 passes per game. Who knows though, he could be a complete bust too.

 

[Thelt]

Not to Moose bash but here are some interesting stats:

2001
Moose 585 yards and 1 TD - QB Chris Wienkie
Gardner 741 yards and 4 TDs - Tony Banks

2002
Moose 823 yards and 3 TDs - Rodney Peete
Gardner 1006 yards 8 TDs - Musical former Florida guys and Ramsey

2003
Moose 837 yards and 3 TDs - Jake Delhomme
Gardner 600 yards and 5 TDs - Mostly Ramsey

2004
Moose 1405 yards and 16 TDs - Jake Delhomme
Gardner 650 yards and 5 TDs - Mark Brunell and Ramsey

If you throw out 2004 and make this change after the 2003 season it is seen as an upgrade and an effort to get younger.

 

[meatpile]

That was my point.

Again - not much to lose with Gardner.

 

[magnus]

Gardner has the potential to be very good. I think he is capable of more than blocking and catching 2-3 passes per game. Who knows though, he could be a complete bust too.

That's all we want. If we'd wanted more, we would've paid Moose, and by some accounts, tried our damndest. Honestly, they squandered him here under Fox the first couple years. I can't see them overusing a lesser talented Gardner if they didn't use Muhammad.

And sure, Thelt, if you cut out a Pro Bowl, league leading season, then Gardner won't look too bad. Actually, you cut out the league leader before that season, too. Gardner's not bad, but he's not an upgrade.