Magick and the Occult

[ECILAM]

Years ago I walked into a gas station to pay for my fillup and grab some snacks. At the register along with the engery pills and chewing gum they had those little rolled up astrology horoscopes, color-coded for each zodiac sign. At the time I still considered astrology to be a valid method of magickal divination, and although I was skeptical of anything supposedly "magickal" being pushed as a consumer product, I thought "why not" and asked for a Capricorn, just to see what was in the scroll.

The girl at the register said, "Oh, no... don't do that. Those are bad. That's evil." Typical East Texas Devilphobia, of course, aided and abetted by the local dominance of Christoid scare-o-ganda merchants. But now I'm wondering just how much the taint of the 1980s-early-90s "Satanic Panic" still lingers in the general collective unconscious.

What are your general thoughts about magick and the occult? Ridiculous hocus-pocus, the Hand of the Devil, or something else entirely? On what do you base your beliefs on it? Religious doctrine, firsthand experience or the lastest bad horror movie?

I'm talking about more than just Tarot cards and newspaper horoscopes. The practices of ceremonial magick, meditation, folk medicine and more are still practiced to this day in many, many forms for any number of purposes, both mundane and spiritual/internal. What do you think of this?

 

[Thelt]

I have never put a lot of stock in any of that. I have heard plenty of sermons about the devil and records played backwards and all that. I think people need to be more worried about what their relationship is with Jesus rather than worrying about the devil getting them.

 

[BigVito]

As for majick and occult practices, it's simply more human attempts to explain what isn't understood and to control the uncontrollable. In our current society, it oft times seems to be an outlet for the "rebellious" by going against the norm.

 

[magnus]

I view it with mild disdain and dismissal thanks to goth kids

 

[hasbeen99]

I believe in the existence of the supernatural. Not having firsthand experience with the occult (other than playing with a Ouija board one day as a kid -- nothing happened), my thoughts and feelings on magick and the occult are from other sources.

That being said, the knowledge I do have suggests that the occult doesn't seem to have much in the way of consistency, either from an experiential or practical perspective. The overlying theme seems to be "do your own thing" in varying degrees and forms. That's probably an oversimplification for a vast and wildly varying area of beliefs, but I think I'm in the ballpark.

As far as the validity of it goes, I have a hunch it's the minority of participants who actually have supernatural experiences, but that it does happen. From what I've researched and heard from practicing Wiccans and so forth, many occults don't seem to take dealing with the supernatural realm seriously enough for my taste. Many seem to view it as a 'spiritual playground' of sorts where it's all good times and nobody ever gets hurt. To me, that's a very dangerous and misguided outlook.

 

[Superfluous_Nut]

i don't believe in the supernatural. there maybe some "ancient wisdom" in some of what is termed the occult, but is suspect that's a pretty minimal component. not to say that ceremony and ritual don't have an effect on people, just that it's more psychological than magical.

 

[hasbeen99]

I'm anxious for AK to weigh in on this one.

 

[articulatekitten]

I believe in the existence of the supernatural. Not having firsthand experience with the occult (other than playing with a Ouija board one day as a kid -- nothing happened), my thoughts and feelings on magick and the occult are from other sources.

That being said, the knowledge I do have suggests that the occult doesn't seem to have much in the way of consistency, either from an experiential or practical perspective. The overlying theme seems to be "do your own thing" in varying degrees and forms. That's probably an oversimplification for a vast and wildly varying area of beliefs, but I think I'm in the ballpark.

As far as the validity of it goes, I have a hunch it's the minority of participants who actually have supernatural experiences, but that it does happen. From what I've researched and heard from practicing Wiccans and so forth, many occults don't seem to take dealing with the supernatural realm seriously enough for my taste. Many seem to view it as a 'spiritual playground' of sorts where it's all good times and nobody ever gets hurt. To me, that's a very dangerous and misguided outlook.

It took me quite awhile to get to this after my big move to the west coast. You knew I'd be hooked by this one, didn't you HB?

I think that a great deal of what we hear about the occult & the supernatural is bogus or exaggerated. There are lots of very real energies & forces out there; but most people either aren't aware of them, or they don't treat it as something serious. I agree with you, HB, that that's very misguided & dangerous.

"Occult" basically means "mystery." The supernatural is just what's beyond what we understand. Doesn't mean stuff doesn't exist or doesn't happen. I think you can reasonably define any religious faith as a belief in the supernatural.

I've had a few experiences that I consider supernatural, & that's part of what I base my views on. Much of my outlook on things is also based on serious exploration & study of many religious & philosophical & scientific topics. I'm a curious person, & I enjoy study.

The fact that we don't understand a lot about certain energies/forces doesn't mean they can't be manipulated; so yes, I think magick works. And prayer works. And mind control works. (Sometimes, that is.) But they're not exact sciences, so you don't always get the results you expect. You have to approach things with an attitude of care & respect, or it can bite you in the ass. And many may disagree with me, but I believe that working from an attitude of meanness will bite you in the ass, too. I think that's a law of nature.

And it's interesting to me that the levels of ceremony surrounding such workings varies so much. Like the Roman Catholic Church, which is highly ritualized, some people who do magickal work follow very detailed rituals. Others--folk healers come to mind--are much more spontaneous. It can work either way, because it's the mind & spirit that do the manipulating--not the ritual. The ritual is a method of focusing the mind.

That may be some of the inconsistency you see, HB--the outer trappings, the different beliefs about who & how & why. The best comparison I can think of at the moment is what would happen if various people dabbled in something like chemistry, & got similar results with widely varying beliefs about where the energy or "magic" comes from, or what you had to say & do while you mixed stuff up.

Just my .

 

[hasbeen99]

And it's interesting to me that the levels of ceremony surrounding such workings varies so much. Like the Roman Catholic Church, which is highly ritualized, some people who do magickal work follow very detailed rituals. Others--folk healers come to mind--are much more spontaneous. It can work either way, because it's the mind & spirit that do the manipulating--not the ritual. The ritual is a method of focusing the mind.

That's an interesting take, AK, and one I hadn't considered. One of the things that has always irked/puzzled me about Catholicism is all the ritual, particularly in exorcism. Protestants often get the same results without all the pomp and circumstance. But focusing the mind is definitely a legitimate benefit I can see as a result of ritual.

 

[sadic1]

I agree in many ways with what AK has said as far as ritual being a useful way to focus energy. As such, one person or a group of people can focus their collective energy for any purpose and achieve some form of results. However, I think the Catholic church was built to do "magic" specifically in Jesus' name. You see it in practices like exorcism and praying the rosary, but it's really part and parcel to the Catholic Mass as a whole. A lot of Protestant services I've been to are more like Bible study+fellowship, rather than a structured way of thinking and focus of energy. Catholic Mass is the same around the world on any given day. Based on the church season and specific day, everyone at the exact same time is told what they should be focusing on and why, and performing mass rituals designed to reach that end. That's a lot of harmonious energy and I do think it changes the world for the better a little at a time.

A lot of religious people I know, Catholic or otherwise, consider ritualistic practice outside of the church for personal purposes to be "satanic" in some way. I used to rebel against this characterization, but I've come to a different understanding that doesn't preclude this idea. Basically, whenever we ask for something WE want, whether it sounds like a good or bad idea, selfish or unselfish, we're assuming that we know better than God does what needs to happen. It's impossible to expect a person to step outside of their own realm of perception and see how something that seems negative on a human level could actually be God's will, but most agree it happens. So, when we pray for something we want, or do a group prayer or ritual for a purpose deemed important by humans, we're actually indulging in an act of selfishness. I would argue that, whether there is or isn't some kind of tangible demonic incarnation of Satan, that the spirit of Satan is embodied by the concept of self over God.