It seems a little strange to me.....

[tenaciousD90]

That the national "NFL voice" (Clayton, Pastabelly, Prisco, etc) have decided on June 30th that the Carolina Panthers are unfit to defend their NFC South crown, much less their NFC Title. They point to two things: The glaring losses in the secondary, coupled with the offensive line overhaul.

I agree that the O-Line situation is a spot of bother. I feel that Gross will be a sure upgrade at LT from Turnstile Todd. Mitchell continues to anchor the line in the middle, a little talked-about fact that I see as a major positive. IMHO, Maser has his hands full....that said, who really sat here last June and honestly foresaw Maser crafting Jeno James into a fairly effective, if not dominant OG. We will be younger on the line, sure...But I think we will be nastier that ever.

The secondary is fine. This obsession with Deon Grant that some seem to have is absurd. He is a decent player. But I can't count on two hands how many times he has blown coverage late in games. (Dallas 2002, Green Bay 2002, Pittsburgh 2002 on a 3rd and long late in the game, at Tampa in 2003 with the McCardell TD). He was never the most physical player, an average tackler. I just never fell in love with him.

Howard played hard...was the perfect fit in the cover 2. But life goes on, we sign Hawkins from Cincy....A solid corner on par with Howard. We draft CB in round one with Gamble. We sign veteran insurance in Terrance Shaw.

Now....look where John Clayton's nose in buried...Philly....They lose 2 All-Pro corners and replace them with two guys named Lito and Sheldon. They sign Jevon Kearse...a fine player, but a walking lego set waiting to fall apart. Owens is a good signing, but when's the last time you saw TO in and NFC Title game....oh, thats right....NEVER!

Games are won and lost on the field, not John Clayton's basement or in the Vegas casinos. I have no idea what out record will be in 04, but I can promise you that this team is physically as talented this season as they were in '03. All things considered, we are better with Brandon Short, Jesse Armstead and Mark "Drop the Hammer" Fields at LB, Meadows, Claridge, Nelson, Wharton, Tuten and company on the OL, Colbert at WR3 or WR4, a healthy Casey Moore at FB (trust me on this one!), and every single member of the 2003 coaching staff returning.

Oh, and we got this guy too.....

 

[tenaciousD90]

and him...

and this dude:

 

[tenaciousD90]

and another sick beast:

 

[tenaciousD90]

and a non-fluke, franchise QB:

 

[tenaciousD90]

And a coach who knows how to squeeze every ounce of greatness out of his men

 

[magnus]

Why? They have a right to that opinion, and whether I like it or not, I can also recognize that this division (and the one before it that we were in) hasn't had a repeat division champion since we've existed. So the chances that this will be a cakewalk are small.

I don't find Grant to be the culprit with the McCardell TD, given that he was triple covered. I won't bother going into the other situations, but at the very least he was the 2nd best DB statistically over the time he was here, and no worse than 2nd best statistically each of the three years he was here. He covered a ton of ground in cover two, not just playing a little bump in short zone. He will be hard to replace and I don't feel we have the player at FS to do it right now.

Plus, like it or not, Manning's raw as hell. Gamble's even more so, and the rest of the players we have never were good and don't suggest to become so. At best, at DB we're waiting to next year for things to be up to the level it should be.

As long as everyone is healthy, our line will be adequate. My concern is in over reaction with the decision making, that if we have a bad couple of snaps in pass protection that we'll fail to adjust and instead simply refrain from throwing.

 

[tenaciousD90]

Why? They have a right to that opinion, and whether I like it or not, I can also recognize that this division (and the one before it that we were in) hasn't had a repeat division champion since we've existed. So the chances that this will be a cakewalk are small.

I don't find Grant to be the culprit with the McCardell TD, given that he was triple covered. I won't bother going into the other situations, but at the very least he was the 2nd best DB statistically over the time he was here, and no worse than 2nd best statistically each of the three years he was here. He covered a ton of ground in cover two, not just playing a little bump in short zone. He will be hard to replace and I don't feel we have the player at FS to do it right now.

Plus, like it or not, Manning's raw as hell. Gamble's even more so, and the rest of the players we have never were good and don't suggest to become so. At best, at DB we're waiting to next year for things to be up to the level it should be.

As long as everyone is healthy, our line will be adequate. My concern is in over reaction with the decision making, that if we have a bad couple of snaps in pass protection that we'll fail to adjust and instead simply refrain from throwing.

I am neither offended nor particularly worried about opinions. I just find it a tad odd that this team, with the level of talent, is not under consideration for another run at the NFCC simply b/c Deon Grant and Jeno James are gone. These were not "Core Players", in my opinion.

Say what you will about Grant. As I said, he is a fine player, but the drop-off from Grant to whomever takes over will not be so substantial that we will lose an extra 3-5 games as a result. There will be some bumps along the way, but Tillman and Branch, given their physical skills, can be "coached-up" to a point where the loss of Grant is somewhat unrecognizable.

 

[hasbeen99]

I feel that Gross will be a sure upgrade at LT from Turnstile Todd.

"Turnstile Todd"? Not hardly. Stuessie was a fine LT. He wasn't the Pro Bowler he had been, but he was still better than most. He had a better year than Kyle Turley did, and made half the money.

The secondary is fine. This obsession with Deon Grant that some seem to have is absurd. He is a decent player. But I can't count on two hands how many times he has blown coverage late in games. (Dallas 2002, Green Bay 2002, Pittsburgh 2002 on a 3rd and long late in the game, at Tampa in 2003 with the McCardell TD). He was never the most physical player, an average tackler. I just never fell in love with him.

He wasn't a Pro Bowler, but he was a known, and good enough for the position. Not only that, he's significantly better than anyone we have on the roster now at that position. He had the physical attributes and was developing the head for the game. Now all we've got is broke down (Richardson) or very, very green (Tillman, Branch, Wesley, Cooper).

Howard played hard...was the perfect fit in the cover 2.

Howard wasn't 'perfect' in any fit anywhere. There was nothing about his game that was "perfect". The only Panther I screamed at more than Howard last year was Greg Favors.

But life goes on, we sign Hawkins from Cincy....A solid corner on par with Howard. We draft CB in round one with Gamble. We sign veteran insurance in Terrance Shaw.

Goody. A Cincinnati Bengal who wasn't good enough to stick around and play for Marvin Lewis, a rookie who scored 9 on his Wonderlic test, and a 10-year vet who hasn't stuck with any team longer than one year since his rookie contract expired.

Now....look where John Clayton's nose in buried...Philly....They lose 2 All-Pro corners and replace them with two guys named Lito and Sheldon. They sign Jevon Kearse...a fine player, but a walking lego set waiting to fall apart. Owens is a good signing, but when's the last time you saw TO in and NFC Title game....oh, thats right....NEVER!

Philly has been to 3 NFC Title games in a row. Granted, they've lost all three, and lost a lot this offseason. I don't think they're legitimate contenders, but it's a politically correct pick for Clayton. It's a feel good thing to say "this is Donovan's year", even if it couldn't be further from the truth.

Oh, and we got this guy too.....

RMJ ain't Superman and will make mistakes. He got royally schooled by Deion Branch in the Super Bowl, and he knows it. According to a recent interview, he's still thinking about it. He'll be better this year, but he's not good enough to carry the whole secondary.

 

[magnus]

No one defender can cost you 3-5 games. But there's a tremendous dropoff there nonetheless. I also don't typify our losses as "simply Grant and James".

Hasbeens has it about right IMO:

>>Not only that, he's significantly better than anyone we have on the roster now at that position. He had the physical attributes and was developing the head for the game.

and as he noted, none of them have his athletic ability, instincts, or any level of experience other than a pittance of time for Tillman with Buffalo.

>>The only Panther I screamed at more than Howard last year was Greg Favors.

Agreed. Toward the end, Cousin earned similar recognition.


There are some places we're more talented. There are some places we're deficient, and IMO at DB we couldn't afford to be deficient from where we were. I have no doubts that Manning could become a serious player, and have hope that Gamble will reach his potential, but I've warned all offseason that Manning could have struggles, and I don't think anyone expects Gamble to be perfect from the start.

 

[The Proprietor]

a rookie who scored 9 on his Wonderlic test

And that matters? It probably higher that the cumulative score of our entire front four. A cornerback needs a short memory anyway. I think all that TD is saying is that our additions are on par with our losses, and I agree 100%. I can't recall ever saying "Wow, what an unbelievable play by Deon Grant." Or "How does Terry Cousin do it???" Bottom line is that we are just as good as 2003 and have just as much of an opportunity to get back to the big game.