Galatians 5:19-24

[articulatekitten]

Galatians 5:19-24 (New International Version)

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.

This is a Bible passage that has stood out in my mind ever since I first read it. It is a favorite, & it illustrates some of the confusion I've experienced about religion.

I’ll make a few separate posts about my thoughts on the passage. I’d be very interested in others’ thoughts both about the passage itself & what I’ve said about it.

PART 1
Sinful nature & behavior:

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Most of what are listed as sinful acts make perfect sense to me, with some of the meanings overlapping: Hatred, discord, jealousy, rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy--those are all clearly negative & destructive.

My definitions of sexual immorality, impurity, & idolatry would vary somewhat from the biblical definition (or people's interpretations of them). But I do have standards & consider those behaviors, in terms of my own standards, negative & destructive.

If drunkenness refers to a habitual state & accompanying destructive behavior, I agree. Simple occasional intoxication without destructive behavior--no.

Temporary, short-term self-medication with alcohol or other drugs to alleviate some form of pain--no. There is a point at which the use of any mind-altering substance crosses a line into abuse, which then becomes negative & destructive.

 

[articulatekitten]

PART 2
And then there's witchcraft.

I'd be interested to know what word in the original language was used & its meaning. The meaning of the word "witchcraft" as used centuries ago in Europe & then in America has been muddied to the point that even now, the definition is debatable. The label was applied--primarily to women--for various evil purposes. Women who acted as "healers" while the Church was engaged in forcefully "converting" the populace were targeted for doing such work without the sanction of the Church. Women who held property that someone else wanted were accused & executed. Women who were generally disliked in their communities were accused & executed. Unwitting victims of irrational hysteria were accused & executed.

There were men included among the many victims of witchcraft accusations, but they were relatively rare. Huge numbers of women were tortured & murdered.

Underlying those vicious attacks was a massive degree of misogyny perpetuated by the male-dominated Church. Women were considered both inferior & inherently evil. Even the evil acts of men were attributed to women’s supposed temptation of good & superior men. The history of the Church is rife with disrespect, hatred, & abuse toward women. The remnants of that attitude, discrimination, & mistreatment are still present to some degree in modern Western civilization.

That entire aspect of history & the central role of the Church disgusts & angers me. Whatever may have changed thus far, it strikes me that there are some major evils at the root of the Church.

If the word witchcraft as used in this passage refers to some sort of so-called “black magic”--spells or rituals or whatnot performed with harmful intent--yes, that’s negative & destructive. Rituals, incantations, prayers of any kind, religious or “supernatural” or new-agey stuff, performed with positive or helpful intent--that’s a very good & positive thing, whether it brings visible results or not.

 

[articulatekitten]

Part 3

Fruits of the Spirit

Galatians 5:22-24 (New International Version)

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.

These are all good, positive things. According to this & other passages in the New Testament, these qualities are evidence of the true repentance & conversion of followers of Christ.

I understand that conversion is a process, not a single event. It takes time to change one’s lifestyle in a major way & to become consistent. Achieving perfection is not possible in this lifetime. However, it’s reasonable to expect to see some degree of evidence in the professed Christian’s behavior if you spend much time around the person. As has been pointed out, none of us can truly know the heart of another. But the Bible itself lists these qualities as evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit.

BUT--how many people in this world did or do display these qualities? How many display such qualities to an extraordinary degree? Not all people who exhibit these qualities are or were Christians. What about Mohandas Gandhi? What about the Dalai Lama? What about kind & loving people who make a positive difference in the world, but follow some other religion? What about people of any or no religion who make it a priority in their lives to become more caring & giving?

It appears you can’t assume that people exhibiting “fruits of the Spirit” are followers of Christ. And you can’t assume that someone in whom you don’t see these characteristics is not a Christian who just hasn’t developed much yet.

 

[jbghostrat]

some good stuff AK, some really thought provoking stuff and i didn't even know you had posted it. course i hardly ever come here anymore cause you can't have a civil discussion on this board anymore.

 

[hasbeen99]

Thanks for bumping this, JB. Imma get back to it when I can.

 

[hasbeen99]

PART 2
And then there's witchcraft.

I'd be interested to know what word in the original language was used & its meaning.

The original Greek word that wound up as "witchcraft" in the KJV is pharmakeia. A more accurate translation (according to Strong's Greek-to-English dictionary) is "sorcery". The tie to our word "pharmacy" is obvious, and the meaning of sorcery (as used in the Bible) refers to a mix of idolatry and mind-altering drugs. Not unlike the '60s, really.

 

[hasbeen99]

Part 3

Fruits of the Spirit

Galatians 5:22-24 (New International Version)



These are all good, positive things. According to this & other passages in the New Testament, these qualities are evidence of the true repentance & conversion of followers of Christ.

Your use of the term "evidence" is perfect. I believe Paul used the word "fruit" very deliberately to describe these aspects of a believer's life. Producing fruit isn't something a tree has to try or learn how to do. A healthy tree just does it. The same is true for Christians. If their relationships with God are healthy and strong, they will naturally exhibit the behaviors mentioned -- not through indoctrination, but through transformation. In other words, developing a strong relationship with God will change a person from the inside out.

BUT--how many people in this world did or do display these qualities? How many display such qualities to an extraordinary degree?

Not nearly enough, but that's hardly new. For thousands of years, God's chosen people (Israel) have lived apart from Him more often than they've lived in harmony with Him.

Not all people who exhibit these qualities are or were Christians. What about Mohandas Gandhi? What about the Dalai Lama? What about kind & loving people who make a positive difference in the world, but follow some other religion? What about people of any or no religion who make it a priority in their lives to become more caring & giving?

God's influence isn't limited to Christians. Romans 2:13-15 indicates that everyone has some level of instinctual awareness of God's influence and principles for living. According to the passage, God will judge those who are not Christians based on a combination of adherence to that awareness/instinct, and their actions compared to what they were taught.

That being said, you said no one achieves perfection in this lifetime, and you were correct to do so. But Biblically speaking, that's what it would take to "earn" our way into heaven.

It appears you can’t assume that people exhibiting “fruits of the Spirit” are followers of Christ. And you can’t assume that someone in whom you don’t see these characteristics is not a Christian who just hasn’t developed much yet.

Agreed, and agreed.