Free Grace Theology

[Thelt]

I was unaware of the name for this belief system but I consider myself to be a follower of it. If HB reads this I am interested in his take on it. I think he may disagree with this a bit and follow more of a "Lordship salvation theology".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Grace_theology

 

[Superfluous_Nut]

so that's basically, if you believe, actions are irrelevant to your salvation? am i reading that right?

 

[curly]

I think you're right, nut. The only caveat being that, since acceptance of Christ's sacrifice is all that is required for salvation it can also be rejected.

 

[Thelt]

so that's basically, if you believe, actions are irrelevant to your salvation? am i reading that right?

Yes they are irrelevant to your salvation, all of man's good deeds are flawed by his sin nature and therefore unable to purchase salvation. Good deeds are however the natural product of salvation.

A way to illustrate this is before you were saved you were a thorn tree. When you were saved you transformed into an apple tree. If you never produce any apples then did you really get transformed? Producing apples did not change you from a thorn tree to an apple tree but they are the natural result.

 

[Superfluous_Nut]

Yes they are irrelevant to your salvation, all of man's good deeds are flawed by his sin nature and therefore unable to purchase salvation. Good deeds are however the natural product of salvation.

A way to illustrate this is before you were saved you were a thorn tree. When you were saved you transformed into an apple tree. If you never produce any apples then did you really get transformed? Producing apples did not change you from a thorn tree to an apple tree but they are the natural result.

so you're saying people who produce thorns aren't really saved even tho they say they are? that in order to prove salvation, one must produce apples?

 

[Thelt]

so you're saying people who produce thorns aren't really saved even tho they say they are? that in order to prove salvation, one must produce apples?

It is impossible to know if another person is saved or not. Only you and God know if you really accepted Christ or not. With that being said if you continue to produce thorns and no apples then chances are you did not really accept Christ. Some people make a confession and pray because the preacher scared them into doing it or someone pushed them to do it but they did not really understand what they were doing or did not do it in a sincere manner. There are also some who produce so few apples that it is hard to tell if they are producing any or not.

 

[hasbeen99]

Pending outright rejection, I do agree with "once saved, always saved" doctrine. However, Scripture also indicates that being "saved" should be (as Thelt alluded to) a transforming event in a persons life -- many times in radical fashion. If no transformation takes place, did the salvation actually happen?

Being saved isn't saying a "magic prayer" or some other combination of religious statements and/or rituals. Words are next to worthless without the heart to back it up...

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" --Matthew 7:21-23

Repentance, faith in the crucifixion and resurrection, and even acceptance of God's gift of salvation is done with a person's life, not with his mouth. Only Jesus and the person in question knows the person's heart well enough to determine his sincerity and understanding. All the rest of us have to go on is the evidence of the person's life.

An important part of the lives of Christians is that we represent Christ to others. Jesus said:

"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men. You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." --Matthew 5:13-16

"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven." --Matthew 10:32

 

[Thelt]

Pending outright rejection, I do agree with "once saved, always saved" doctrine. However, Scripture also indicates that being "saved" should be (as Thelt alluded to) a transforming event in a persons life -- many times in radical fashion. If no transformation takes place, did the salvation actually happen?

Being saved isn't saying a "magic prayer" or some other combination of religious statements and/or rituals. Words are next to worthless without the heart to back it up...



Repentance, faith in the crucifixion and resurrection, and even acceptance of God's gift of salvation is done with a person's life, not with his mouth. Only Jesus and the person in question knows the person's heart well enough to determine his sincerity and understanding. All the rest of us have to go on is the evidence of the person's life.

An important part of the lives of Christians is that we represent Christ to others. Jesus said:

"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men. You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." --Matthew 5:13-16

"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven." --Matthew 10:32

Does this more closely match what you believe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lordship_salvation

 

[hasbeen99]

Does this more closely match what you believe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lordship_salvation

Lordship salvation is a teaching in Christian theology that maintains good works are a necessary consequence of being declared righteous before God. In other words, Jesus cannot be considered a person's savior (that is, bringer of salvation) without simultaneously being lord of the person's life, which is demonstrated by the gradual purification from sin and the exercising of good works (for instance, caring for widows and orphans, [James 1:27]).

Yes, but under the important, yet subtle relationship between salvation and works noted here: necessary consequence. A consequence isn't an act of will -- it's an outcome; the result of a choice already made. This is what I believe Jesus meant when He compared His followers to fruit trees. A tree doesn't have to figure out how to try to make a piece of fruit. If a fruit tree is healthy, it does so automatically. Likewise, a diseased or neglected fruit tree won't. The same is true for the life of a Christian disciple. If he's truly "grafted in" to the vine (Jesus), he will produce the "fruit" of the Spirit. Not that he has to learn how, or create the desire to love, care for, and help others -- it will be a natural impulse for him. The motivation comes from the relationship established with God. If there's no relationship, there's no motivation. And if there's no relationship, how could a true conversion have taken place?

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.

Galatians 5:19-24​

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[Thelt]

I agree with your take on this. The quote talks about a gradual purification from sin and that is the part I do not agree with. I believe salvation takes place at the instant a person decided to accept Christ. I do not think you are slowly saved over a period of time.

Once you are a fruit tree it will be your nature to bear fruit. You may never bear any though but it should be your nature. You will however always be a fruit tree and do not have the power to return to being a thorn tree.