Coaching - Personnel - or Execution?

[willie]

We have played 3 games. We looked totally confused and inept in 2 of them - and pretty good in 1 of them. So, is the problem primarily coaching, personnel (talent), or inability to execute (tackle, run a route, block, etc.?)... I really don't know at this point. It seems to me that in addition to the lack of execution we look really soft and unprepared to play a football game - which in its simplest form is blocking, tackling, knowing where to be and to be able to react, etc... can some of you just spell it out? (and, by the way, please refrain from simply saying I'm a dumbass and stuff like that...though if you must...).

 

[PantherPaul]

"D" All the above

oh and Fuck Hurney

 

[willie]

How do you fix "all of the above"? If it's fire Hurney, then JR has to pass (maybe) - so, are we stuck in a cycle of mediocrity - at best? I would like to think we are going to improve, but this staff doesn't engender a lot of hope for that because we just look like we don't know what we're doing.....

 

[PantherPaul]

Can't undo bad signings and deals. take your pick.

• But I'd first fire Hurney. Go ask the Giants GM who he would hire that's most like him, and hire him
  *Try to move DeAngelo, yeah the cap hit would be huge
  
  *Cut Thomas Davis as his contract gets worse from here on out per Collin and your playing with borrowed time
  
  *Fire Rivera and go the most respected GM or head coach and find out who is the most ready assistant and hire his ass
  
  *Be prepared for a couple of years of suckage but at least have a plan by never trading picks for players you plan on swapping positions (Edwards), not over pay for players nearing 30 years old or players you have equal or better talent already

 

[magnus]

I don't know that Davis wouldn't do whatever it takes to stay, but call me fucking crazy that sounds like something you deal with when the season ends.

But, then again for me I don't find Jerry Richardson dying to be a palatable part of my plans either. Waiting for him to die or anticipating when we'll cut Beason years from now isn't something I buy a whole lot into.

If it were me, as I've said for nine years now, I'd have no problem moving Hurney to an oversight position, if that meant getting a better personnel guy in. Then move from there. I'm honestly a little surprised that didn't have a chance when Billy Devaney was let go as Rams GM given the history between he and Hurney. That's not where I'd go, but it would make some sense organizationally.

But, to the original question - which of the three? Hard to say. It's not a matter of motivation, but I would say this team is moodier than I've seen in a long time, too.
I think we have some good talent, but there are obvious holes, and as much as I wanted to believe Norman was above average, he's playing to his draft position - we have two one-dimensional DTs that don't work in the same direction. I find those to be two massive holes that kinda work together to fuck you, and while there are places we have a lot more depth and talent, I don't know I've seen the efforts of that on the field (Murphy at WR, our general struggles at LB, inevitable upgrade at S and the kicking game as a few examples).
And, I'm not thrilled with coaching either - I don't believe that Rivera needs to be a fire-breather, but ultimately he's responsible. I had my concerns about McDermott at times, and Wilks hasn't made the difference I hoped so far. Chud is obviously overthinking this, creating a bunch of college shit when we can just throw the fucking ball well when we're not down 10+. And I definitely wish we'd dropped Murphy.

So no one particular thing, really. Team sport, team's to blame.

 

[Black&Blue_]

I think Rivera has done his best with some of the pieces he's been given. But he's 7-12. That's the worst start for any Panthers coach after 19 games. So at best, the jury's still out as to whether he's any good.

I blame most of it on Hurney.

 

[chaz]

We've had the same gripes with Fox. Rivera hasn't imposed an identity on this team any more than Fox did (other than run-run-draw-punt, which isn't an identity). Hurney comes from the Casserly line, so his trading isn't a surprise. He signs his own as opposed to cutting them loose like the Patriots and Giants. It's a way of doing business, but it puts a whole lot of weight into drafts. JR is or isn't intimately involved.

But in the end it comes down to players making plays. And that takes attitude and will. Front office and coaches set the table (and there's enough criticism of the cooking), but players gotta come eat.

 

[Coach Micool]

sometimes fundamentals trumps gameplanning and playcalling


our team does neither well, consistently

doing all three well, or even one well is on coaching more than pure talent

and a big reason why we've sucked for years, overall

every time the o or d comes off the field, especially the skill players, they should be on the bench with their respective coaches going over what they need to do next, hashing out ideas and strategery....and they are not on our team nearly as much as other 'good' teams.

 

[Purrsy]

We've had the same gripes with Fox. Rivera hasn't imposed an identity on this team any more than Fox did (other than run-run-draw-punt, which isn't an identity).

I strongly disagree with this part. Fox clearly gave this team an identity. It didn't always parlay into tons of success, and I'm not one of the "I wish Foxy was still here" guys, but he was a run first, playaction passing offense designed to keep the game within reach, play the percentages, and go for the win in the fourth quarter.

His defense was mostly strong, wanted to be sturdy against the pass and run, and make plays when the game drew to a close.

He most definitely had an identity. What hurt him amongst a lot of things he did on his own, was when he and Hurney were making awful decisions in the draft to try and make a desperate play to get into the play-offs quick. They went away from guys that worked for Foxy - like AE, Clausen, Brown...

Man, thinking back on it, just reiterates what a terrible franchise this has been for a long time now.


Sadly I don't even think Rivera is sure what he wants this team to be. So how can you have productive drafts or a good free agency period if you don't know what to get?

 

[meatpile]

Coaching.

IMHO, we have very good pieces.

Remember - Fox went 7-9 with peete, lamar smith, cousins, howard.

Had a solid dline though.

Still - coaching by a long shot.