Would you take this trade

Same goes with trading/trading for players.

 

Exactly. Making this a pretty worthless thread.

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I'd be pissed if we started negotiating with Darius.

I'd be pissed if we drafted him.

I remember everyone was blowing their wads on drafting John Henderson over Peppers, too. DTs have more early round bust potential than I think even QBs have.

Fucking draft Newton, AJ Green, or somebody who is going to help our fucking offense. Fuck Darius.

 

no... considering McNabb could be had for a 5th

 

They don't. DTs are actually a safer bet than most positions, including DEs, or at least they were the last time I looked at that. And for the record, I think the notion back then wasn't Henderson instead of Peppers, but rather to trade down and pick up extra things while selecting Henderson. Additionally, Henderson had a very good career before injuries derailed it.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't use Henderson as my bust example. Gerard Warren comes to mind though as a #1 overall DT who was a collosal bust. I don't remember a #1 DT since that actually.

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Fair enough, but I'd like to, actually when I have time (the burden falls on me to do so) find the rate of busts with DTs in the first 15 picks. As I recall, it's not very good at all.

I know you have issues with Newton, but putting aside what's best for this coming year....if this guy has as much raw talent as he does, why not pick him? Two years down the road, wouldn't we start seeing the benefits of this, and won't we be damn glad we did?

I don't see Darius as a game changer, but correct me if I'm wrong....


PS- Oh, and as far as Henderson asd Peppers, it wasn't really a matter of saying Henderson was a bust- more a matter of saying that at the time, most were saying he was a greater need, and much safer. Like now w Darius vs. Newton. And I think history says Peppers was the far superior pick, even if it's awfully en vogue to say Peppers sucks because he's not with us anymore...

I would hate to see Newton playing lights out or in pro bowls down the line, while we played it safe with a guy like Darius, who is a good worker, but nothing like a Suh.

 

I mean---the list is long with DTs who were picked int eh first, or high, who didn't pan out. Pretty damn long, if I can recall.

I'll look it up, possibly tonight or tomorrow.

 

Suh, McCoy, Raji, Dorsey, Ellis, Okoye, Ngata, and Bunkley over the last five years. Now it's fair to say that Dorsey and Ellis haven't made the impact their teams hoped, but I wouldn't consider any of those players to be a bust. I guess you might argue about Dorsey, but he would be the only one that's even debatable. Meanwhile you have a whole hell of a lot of impact from the other names.

Because most of his talent is in areas that don't translate well to the NFL. If we were playing in the Arena Football League, then I'd take Newton #1 without hesitation, but the things he is best at are not the things that are most important for quarterbacks in the NFL.

He's not a Suh, but no one in this draft is a "game changer" of that ilk. Dareus probably is the best combination of physical talent and football skills. Newton & Peterson have elite athleticism, but will have to develop as football players to harness that talent, which is always a risky proposition at that level. Now if we still had the #33 pick then I would be all about trading down and getting a DT at 33 because that's the one position where the draft actually is deep, but we obviously don't.

Again, I don't think you're remembering correctly. Some people knocked Peppers' work ethic, but if you recall, I was by far the most vehemently opposed to that accusation. The reason I and some others advocated Henderson was just because the Panthers had a lot of needs, and could maybe address multiple ones by picking up extra draft picks while also getting a very good defensive lineman. And back in those days, teams actually did give up huge packages to move up in the draft. Furthermore, Ryan Sims was also in that draft, but magnus and I both insisted that he would be a bust.

I'd say that the odds are very strongly against him ever making a Pro Bowl, but he does have a chance to be an above average starter. I'm not sure he isn't the best quarterback prospect in this class, but unfortunately I don't think any of the quarterbacks in this class have elite potential. That's where you and I differ. I don't see Newton being elite even in the best case scenario.

 

I think Ellis is doing a pretty good job.