Wharton

They are the same idea.

I've heard that maddenites differentiate that way because inside-tackle pulls are traps but the contain traps are sweeps - which is right in that context, and not in the context we're arguing. The inside plays are, of course, traps. The power sweeps are traps, too, they're just called power sweeps. They still involve pulling and a trap block.

 

This is what I understood. Pulling is vacating an area, while trapping or leading, for example, are subsidairy names for pull blocking.

 

This is correct, but thanks for creating another pointless argument. In sum, most traps involve pulling but most pulls do not involve trapping.

 

This is correct.

this isn't.

 

Ok, if you aren't actually just screwing with me and you honestly don't know that you're wrong about this, I have grossly overestimated your football knowledge.

Read this link: http://eteamz.active.com/hogs/news/index.cfm?cat=58298

Oh, and I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why Ron Rivera said "pulling and trapping" if they're the same thing.

Or check out this NFL.com profile on Mike Williams:
"Negatives: Needs to get his weight to the 340-pound area in order to maintain stamina … Relies more on power than technique, lacking the true explosion you would want from someone his size coming off the snap … Needs to improve his footwork a bit, as he seems hesitant redirecting to inside moves … Will punch and jab at defenders rather than trying to push off … Has good trap-block ability, but has not been used much to pull … Overextends at times, but has the quickness to recover."

And in case you wondered, numerous other profiles make a distinction between the two, often talking about how larger linemen can be devastating trap blockers and yet lack the foot speed to be good pull blockers. I guess NFL.com and I are just crazy. Clearly we're ignorant compared to all-knowing magnus. :supergrin


Seriously, though, you made that one way too easy. I mean who doesn't know the difference between a trap and a pull?

 

Much like the rest of this, because you're mistaken into thinking that they're two entirely separate things (and because you're trying, just like with the Richt/Fox/Derrick Brooks comment, to extrapolate something that isn't there). You pull to trap. It's one assignment. You can be good at trapping without having the athleticism/agility to be effective in getting there. It's basic. You can ask for the same answer over and over again, as if the answer's going to change, but it won't be.

 

Nice dodge. Did you learn that "speak without answering" thing from watching Bill Clinton? I mean you did realize I'd notice that you didn't actually answer the question didn't you? Ok, so you say that they're not two different things, so why would someone talk about them as if they were? Why would former NFL linemen talk about them as two different things? Why would a litany of NFL.com prospect profiles say that bigger linemen are great at trapping but not good at pulling?

Seriously, if you didn't actually know the difference and you supposedly played offensive line in high school, your coach must have been a complete idiot.


For anyone who actually wants to understand the difference between trapping and pulling, you can either follow that link above, or just read this again:

 

So let me get this right. You declared yourself right even though there's significant evidence against you (and God only knows how long it took you to find the one website that somewhat agrees with you), twisted the words of a defensive coordinator to try to make a case, used the ever-popular "even though I'm obviously angry and irrational because someone corrected me, he obviously only disagrees with me because he holds some huge grudge" - which is always the hallmark of someone secure in their argument, just beyond the usual dismissiveness. What's next? Are you going to frustratedly sign off after another gem like this?

"You guys will never know the frustration of having vastly superior intelligence."



It's obvious that this is one assignment. It's obvious cause and effect. As for the idiocy of my coaches, they were pretty die-hard Wing-T guys. They had the original Delaware Wing-T book and the hardcover that their coaches had written about it. You know, the one Tubby Raymond wrote a while after he invented the offense. That and the AFCA book I've got right here, that I know basically by heart.


I googled for your one link's terminology - "cross pull block", "cross pull blocking", which I've never heard of, and the only similarity to which is the cross block where the guard kicks out behind the tackle, who blocks down.

Anyway, google came up with goose egg. Pulling, trapping, pull trap, whatever you want to put in, comes up with thousands.
If this is widely used terminology, everyone uses it in a back room, with the lights off, spoken quietly while someone pipes in gray noise.

You know, in an environment where coaches are sending game tape of their own games to opponents and openly converse with comtemporaries about scheme, and where entire playbooks are available online simply for the having.



You also stated that "most pulls aren't for traps."

So tell me all about all these phantom pulls? I noted early on that a second guard on a bucksweep contains pursuit. Which only happens after a guard traps the contain. You very rarely see an onside guard block around contain, without a trap on contain. That's way too slow a play to develop at this level. Only the veer runs that contain play, that I can remember, and the veer isn't exactly integrated into modern pro-multiple schemes.

So what else? I imagine you could pick and call the fake pull pass protection one, and we know how much we see that. You could call a screen a play with pulling linemen a pulling play without trapping, if you really insisted. I really can't think of anything else, and excepting the screen, you just don't move linemen around for shits and giggles.

 

Significant evidence? As near as I can tell, there isn't any evidence at all against me. You cited three websites that absolutely did not say that pulling and trapping were the same thing, so I'm not sure what evidence you're referring to.

Not that long. It was one of the first links on the very first page of my google search. I didn't bother to look any further.

Actually I'm pretty sure I didn't twist any of Rivera's words. I quoted exactly what HeadCase reported him saying and asked you why he would refer to "pulling and trapping" if they actually meant the same thing. You still haven't answered that, despite attempting to appear as if you had.

Also, I'm still waiting to hear you explain why NFL.com would say that Williams was great at trapping in college but not good at pulling (and as noted, that's a frequent comment in their profiles for mammoth linemen).


It's really just this simple:
You ran your mouth off and made a stupid mistake, exposing some ignorance. Now you're embarrassed because you're supposed to be this complete football guru, and that's compounded by your well known and well documented inability to simply admit you were wrong about something. So now you're continuing to argue even though everyone else in this thread has tried to get you to back off your ledge because they all know that you're wrong. They all know this because understanding the difference between traps and pulls is very basic football knowledge that any former player (at any level) or dedicated fan should know.

But yeah, show yourself to be a complete hypocrite by complaining about me accusing you of arguing for personal reasons and then accusing me of doing exactly the same thing. I don't blame you, I know it must be humiliating for someone with your reputation to not know something so basic. :supergrin

Wow, you are just throwing around terminology in a desperate attempt to sound competent without having a clue what you're talking about. The word you're looking for is "seal" not "trap" when discussing what happens on containment. As I already explained but you have apparently failed to read, a trap is allowing a blocker to come free with the design that a blocker from another area will blindside the defender either at the line of scrimmage or in the backfield. Sealing, meanwhile, is when the blocker simply attempts to impede the progress of the defender. It sounds like you honestly don't have a clue what a trap is, because you continue to use the word incorrectly, and that seems like the likeliest cause for continuing to argue a position everyone knows is wrong.

 

I answered your Rivera charge, I answered your NFL.com charge. You don't have to like the answers, but you can't refute them, or else you wouldn't keep asking them as if I'm suddenly going to agree with your twist of the words. I stated that they are both of the same action and therefore no one's going to correctly state that they are. They're

You weren't even right to correct Headcase when he said "seemed to me that we always (since Henning least ways) relied on traps and seams rather than knocking the DL off the ball."

You know damn well that's what Henning does.

>>even though everyone else in this thread

Yep. Just like "vast majority", and all the other faux-consensus fabrications you've always used. And stuff. Or you've decided you need to show some front of being right, and therefore would rather run PR than discuss.


So why has no one ever heard of this cross pull?

I'm discussing your own point, something you didn't do. I was discussing the blocks that aren't traps that involve pulling, of which there are few and not often used, that generally involve inside pursuit scoops behind a trap.
You should've stopped here: