The Peppers thread - poll

The only decision that can really "set the franchise back" as it were, is to pay Peppers superstar money, then have him perform 4 or 5 more years like this last one. If we let him go, get the first and the cap space, and use those wisely, we dont really suffer so much, even if he returns to form in another uniform.

 

I agree with this. Plus, right now, if we deal him we can control where he does not go, very important IMO. If he returns to form and hits FA he could end up playing against us twice a year.

 

What in the hell is this supposed to be?

 

That sounds logical, but is erroneous. There is no such thing as spending the cap wisely anymore because cap space has increased at a dramatically higher rate than the availability of talent. That's why you have Corey Reddings getting $50 million. In that respect it's getting somewhat like the NBA where everyone gets a giant contract and you just have to hope you have the better guys. If you take the money you "saved" on Peppers, you will not find anyone remotely close to his talent level available in free agency, much less willing to sign for that. For the same price you could buy one solid player and a low priced free agent, but that's not making your team better. Draft picks might, but that's a hell of a gamble.

Look, the guy has been the best defensive end in the league against the run for years now (although not in '07, as lde pointed out). He's also the most physically talented defensive end in the league (Mario Williams can suck it). Down years do happen, especially for defensive linemen (look at Freeney's 2006), and I have every confidence that he will bounce back. In fact, I think we'd be best off if we signed Peppers and them stopped having him fill all these retarded roles in the defensive scheme. Simplify his role, have Rucker work with him individually on his technique, and turn that mother fucker loose. He's been playing too much in his head while here because of what we ask him to do.

The stupidity of people is more of a threat than global warming. One of you might be the one to start the chain reaction that explodes the world.

 

I agree 100% (since this is a sports board, 110%).

 

I think you have to do a proper risk/reward analysis to come to a proper conclusion. I have watched Peppers since he was at UNC (as most of the board has), and he has ALWAYS been streaky, even when he was on. I don't think the comparison to the situation with Freeney last year was fair, because Freeney still made his linemates better (Mathis had 9.5 sacks, DT's combined for 5.5) by drawing consistent double teams, and still brought fairly consistent pressure. This years Panthers squad has set a franchise record for sack futility, and I will grant, a good deal of that is scheme, and another part is Rucker just flat getting old. Nonetheless, Peppers has not consistently drawn double teams, and has not appeared to elevate his teammates play, which is a pre-requisite for a superstar caliber contract, IMO.

If you look at our past success with first round picks, we have done ok in that area, no flat out busts under Fox/Hurney. If we can assume a solid (maybe unspectacular) player is drafted there, the remaining cap dollars saved can be allocated to overspending (because that is what you must do these days, as you alluded to) on some quality talent for our offensive line, which is the teams most glaring weakness, IMO. If we are straddled with Peppers cap figure for next season, it will be difficult to properly address this area, unless Fox has the second coming of Joe Bugel stashed away somewhere and not saying anything about it.

Does this then imply that you are in favor of a change of the defensive coaching staff, if we keep Peppers, to better allow him to realize his full potential?

 

I think most of us agree he's been playing too much inside his head, and he does seem to be playing enthusiastically when he's chasing downfield.

There is another option not on the poll. Let him play under his existing contract, coach him PROPERLY, and see what happens next year. His cap hit is not nice, but its not crippling. We're under the cap, although not nearly as much as most teams. We can clear more room easily (cut Carr, Morgan), and even more room without a tremendous amount of pain.

There has been much made of the delay in JR saying something. I'm hoping he wants to talk to Fox about things just like this before commiting to anything.

 

Yeah, there is no real gun to our, or his, head to signing a contract now.

Athleticially, he's still got it. The whole pass rush was absent this year, not just from Julius.

 

As a pass rusher, sure, but you have to realize that pass rushers are. Sacks come in bunches, whether you're talking about Peppers or Michael Strahan. Freeney is one of the few that gets consistent pressure and it's because he has almost no run responsibilities. Pass rushing is more of a situational thing where you take opportunities on a tackle stepping too wide or losing leverage or slipping on the snap.

You can look at pretty much any good or great defensive end and find that they have had bad years in terms of pass rushing. That's just the nature of the game, and no, Freeney wasn't helping his teammates to any significant degree. Mathis' sacks came because Mathis is almost as good at rushing the passer.

Your opinion is wrong. The idea that Peppers should elevate the performance of the players around him is something that has been kicked around forever, but there's just no validity to that. Defensive ends are rarely double teamed by anyone when the defense uses a four man line. Sometimes you'll get a chip from the back or the tight end will stay in to help, but otherwise it's a one on one match-up, and what the other players do is up to them.

And achieve absolutely nothing. You're talking about exchanging one of the top talents in the NFL for a "solid player" and another overpaid player.

The Pats manage to put together a great line without spending big money, but I don't think Carolina would have much success in that respect with an unlimited budget. We're just shitty at personnel evaluation. In any case, dramatically downgrading the talent level of our defense just to overpay some offensive tackle hurts this team instead of helping it.

No, it does not. You don't need to change the system to stop having him drop into coverage or some of the other dumb shit we do. Rucker doesn't have to do that, our coaches have just fallen in love with Peppers' versatility to his detriment as a pass rusher. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, and Peppers should be allowed to pin his ears back and attack the pocket more often than he does right now.

 

Unless of course the coaches are so in love with their system that they won't change. Wasnt it obvious to everyone that Pep should stop dropping back this year. Did they ever change? No.

If the coaches are committed to the fact that ALL of our problems were at QB, they're likely to keep right on doing what they did this year.