should be at least 10 mock draft threads by now

I've rarely seen him out of the first round, but I haven't specifically looked for his consensus value at every draft site. He did have a disappointing year, though 2005 certainly showed he can rush.

 

Sure, but the extreme fall off this year is disconcerting. I think he's still ranked highly on most lists because he started there before the season, and I believe he'll drop significantly down charts as people adjust for that. He still has quickness and I wouldn't mind taking a look at him in the second round, but it would be hard to swallow a sack artist who only got 3 sacks at #14.

 

The dropoff doesn't concern me that much. Generally, guys with athleticism don't fall that much if they'd earned a decent spot on the field. If you take away what he'd done in 2005 and say it's all potential, I'd still figure him as a first round player.

 

Can you think of any first round defensive end in history who only had 3 sacks in the season he came out?

 

Off the top of my head, no, of course not. I can't think of any particular sack stat. I don't like that he only had 4.5 sacks this year, certainly. I don't think it changes his talent level at all, either.

 

Look, if you have a season that bad then you're not that an incredible talent to begin with. Moses is a solid guy who can succeed in the right system, but he is not worthy of a first round pick either from a talent or production standpoint. He only got that attention before the season because of the numbers from his junior year and the general lack of strong DE prospects.

 

then we disagree. Right now, I think of him as a first round prospect, and so do most. I still believe he's got a lot of talent.

 

Most think of him that way because A) most don't know what they're talking about to begin with, and B) the others haven't adjusted their rankings since the pre-season ones which were based on the production during his junior year. You admitted that you can't think of any defensive end ever who had as bad a senior year as Moses did and still went in the first round. Throw in the fact that he never has been good against the run either and the case against him seems pretty strong.

 

And they both play horribly. I pray we get another young G, if he can actually move someone off the LOS.

Sometimes you just have to say we drafted with a poor philosophy and do it over.

I do beleive Moses is a 1st round talent, but I'm very leery of him. I don't think at this point we need a player who either basically didn't care for a whole year, as some scouts seem to say, or was ineffective for that long. We need those smart, tough players Fox said he wanted, but then got away from. Hence a large source of our recent problems.

 

I don't think a guy can drop that much and not be leery. I'm leery of him as well, to a point. I just think, as you do, that he's that first round talent. I do like his first step, his ability getting to the outside, and a lot of people have wanted a guy who can do that on the other side of Peppers.

As for guard, maybe so. It's not the lack of experience that much (lack of savvy and technique, maybe - we often have to trade off and get technique OR power/ability), it's the lack of "the other option." Two young guys - I do have hope in Montgomery if Mathis isn't it - and another young guy - doesn't give you the other side of the coin. The ability to adjust with a guy who will guarantee he won't make mistakes, after you've gotten fed up with the mistakes.