Peppers has bust written all over him

[boo-urns]

take the last few de's to be taken in the top 3, Brown, Wilkinson, Wadsworth all come to mind. Brown has had some success, but not really an impact player. Big Daddy is now a just above average DT...Wadsworth isn't proving the be the impact player he was supposed to be. What makes Peppers any different? If I remember correctly, Brown, BigDaddy and Wads all had better workouts than Peppers.

IMO if they stay where they are....they draft McKinnie. Fox is a ball control/run the ball play action offense guy...McKinnie will solidify the bill and will be a long term impact player on the offensive line. Players like McKinnie don't come around often.

 

[Piper]

McKinnie seems to be falling a bit after a less than impressive Pro Day workout. He has an impressive wingspan, but he didn't show great strength. We'd look at Jammer before he IMO.

Big Daddy has always been a DT in the NFL. He's starting to slip a bit, but he has been an impact player for several seasons.

Wadsworth is out of the NFL due to injury. Brown was dominant when he was on the field, but again, injuries. Same could happen to McKinnie, or any top pick.

 

[magnus]

Ahh dammit if I have to hear one more McKinnie situation....why would we stay put to reach for a lesser need that doesn't fit our system as well as guys available a round later, rather than fill the big need with the best value? The least you can do is humor me and say that we'd take jammer instead, or that we'd trade down for McKinnie.

You're also negating the success of the 4th overall last year, and besides Wilkinson was a DT.

 

[boo-urns]

BigDaddy played DE at OSU...he was only having an "impact" when playing along side another DT (Stuublefield) who really was making an impact. Remember the hype around BigDaddy? he has hardly lived up to that.

Let's take DE's taken in the first round, not just the first few picks...Jevon Kearse and Grant Wistrom are the only ones that are currently playing like 1st rounders are expected...kearse had an impact for one year but has substantailly dropped off since then

I didn't watch enough of Cinncy last year to see how (I forget his name...drafted number 4 out of Missourri- Justin Smith?) is doing.

Greg Ellis - marginal..not an impact player..not worthy of where he was drafted
Andre Carter - marginal...still developing...not worthy of where he was drafted
Jamal Reynolds - bust
Shaun Ellis - doing alright...still developing...not worthy of where he was drafted
Erik Flowers - still developing
Ebeneezer Ekuban - bust
Patrick Kerney - bust

In my opinion, drafting a de in the first round just gets you a starter...not a playmaker.

 

[boo-urns]

Originally posted by magnus ver magnusson
Ahh dammit if I have to hear one more McKinnie situation....why would we stay put to reach for a lesser need that doesn't fit our system as well as guys available a round later, rather than fill the big need with the best value? The least you can do is humor me and say that we'd take jammer instead, or that we'd trade down for McKinnie.

You're also negating the success of the 4th overall last year, and besides Wilkinson was a DT.

kinda like when st louis drafted Orlando Pace and the ravens with Ogden?

 

[McFly41]

If we're talking tackle, I'd prefer to go with McKinnie's former teammate, Gonzales, in the fourth. With Stuesie already on the left side and McMinnie being a left sider, Gonzo makes more sense to me. I think Mags refered to him as "the guy you always look to replace, but just can't". Terry could move to guard, where I think he'd be more productive.
I wouldn't say Pepers will be a bust, but he has just as much of a chance as any.

 

[magnus]

No, St. Louis drafted an all-around good player, not a pass blocker who has some problems against the run. St. Louis did also have a lot of skill set talent on offense, and at the time not many defensive needs. OT was their major need, and it cost them. Has Pace helped them? Certainly. Is he the reason their offense was so good? No. He's about fifth in line on that answer.

Any scout will tell you that McKinnie is nowhere near Pace or Ogden. And if you're looking at those two and thinking that the fact that each team drafted an OT, and that's the secret of the success, then we're done talking. Fact is it's just like the Rams, except for not really, because we have ten holes and 4 decent picks. If we drafted McKinnie, we'd have nine holes, with the least of the ten being filled, and by a tackle who lacks the push in the run game we need. Tell me, do you like it when your strong safety can bench what your RT does, when you're playing ball control? I don't.

Not to mention the lack of a trade down, something you won't address.

Stubblefield went to Kansas, and I know you're not suggesting that the Washington pairing of Stubblefield and Wilkinson was productive. Furthermore, I'm really not certain what Wilkinson does to this argument other than simply add to the list of defensive linemen that were busts within the last ten years. Kinda like saying that "well this guy reminds me of Jason Peter."

 

[Piper]

>>he was only having an "impact" when playing along side another DT (Stuublefield)

Yep. Got to have the effective 2 gapper for the one gapper to work. Big Daddy was the playmaker though.

>>kearse had an impact for one year but has substantailly dropped off since then

Check your stats. 10+ sacks a season for 3 years.

>>Justin Smith is doing.

8.5 sacks in 12 starts. I'll take that from Pep.

You negleted to mention several former 1st rounders who have made the Pro-Bowl a few times in that list. One of them broke the sack record.

 

[boo-urns]

Originally posted by magnus ver magnusson
No, St. Louis drafted an all-around good player, not a pass blocker who has some problems against the run. St. Louis did also have a lot of skill set talent on offense, and at the time not many defensive needs. OT was their major need, and it cost them. Has Pace helped them? Certainly. Is he the reason their offense was so good? No. He's about fifth in line on that answer.

To get into St. Louis, they were so bad for so long that they were able to draft the nucleous of their talent and sign /trade for impact players. Warner was obviously the intangible that nobody expected. If Pace wasn’t blocking for Marshall and pass blocking for Warner…I doubt they would be as dominant as they have then. The year they took Pace, they had tons of holes but the best player available at that spot was pace



Any scout will tell you that McKinnie is nowhere near Pace or Ogden. And if you're looking at those two and thinking that the fact that each team drafted an OT, and that's the secret of the success, then we're done talking. Fact is it's just like the Rams, except for not really, because we have ten holes and 4 decent picks. If we drafted McKinnie, we'd have nine holes, with the least of the ten being filled, and by a tackle who lacks the push in the run game we need. Tell me, do you like it when your strong safety can bench what your RT does, when you're playing ball control? I don't.

I’ve read several that say he is better than both. Infact, some say he is the best that has come out in the past 10 years.

Not to mention the lack of a trade down, something you won't address.


I think they want to trade down, but with who? How many spots are they willing to drop? How many more picks will they get? What player do the really want and will he be there after they trade? Until there is some hard evidence they are going to trade, you have to assume they are staying put.

Stubblefield went to Kansas, and I know you're not suggesting that the Washington pairing of Stubblefield and Wilkinson was productive. Furthermore, I'm really not certain what Wilkinson does to this argument other than simply add to the list of defensive linemen that were busts within the last ten years. Kinda like saying that "well this guy reminds me of Jason Peter."

I forgot about Peter

The only reason I brought BigDaddy in is because: 1)when he was drafted he was projected to be either a DE or DT…(he played DE at OSU) 2) the hype around him is similar to the hype around peppers.


I guess this boils down to this: do you draft the best available player or the best available player at the position you need filled.

As a Lions fan, I’m still laughing over Green Bay passing on Barry Sanders for Tony Marinovich…when you have a top five pick (IMO), you take the best player available.

 

[boo-urns]

Originally posted by Piper
>>>>Justin Smith is doing.

8.5 sacks in 12 starts. I'll take that from Pep.

You negleted to mention several former 1st rounders who have made the Pro-Bowl a few times in that list. One of them broke the sack record.

I see you have low expectations of a number 2 pick.

I only went back a few years...who are the players?