Panther's Running Back Failure(s)

Huh? I think Hoover is one of the best people on our team and I'm glad he's a Panther, but the film is indisputable. Heck, go back and watch the Giants game and watch the play at 3:25 left in the first quarter. It was 3rd down and three, and we had a running play to the left side of the line. Foster ended up getting the first down by inches, but what stands out most on the replay is that Hoover doesn't hit anyone at all, he just stands there in front of Umenyiora and holds his hands out. Seriously, please go back and watch the game or else catch it on NFL Network. Hoover is just not a good blocker, it's as simple as that. It's not even a matter of opinion, it's a fact. Whether or not he makes up for his deficiencies as a blocker by performing well in other ways is more of a gray area, but at the least most of us have felt like it's obvious that we need a different short yardage fullback.

 

If Umenyiora was his assignment and Umenyiora didn't make the play then he did his job. I don't mind honest blame but man point it in the right direction.

 

Dude, Umenyiora slammed Foster to the ground on that play, turning what should have been an easy first down into a very close call.


Seriously, at least bother to even learn what you're talking about before trying to disagree with me. It would be fine to ask me whether or not Hoover's failure compromised the run, but instead you acted like I was being unfair when you didn't have the slightest clue what happened on the play in question. I don't know what bug crawled up your @$$ in regards to me (notice how you're doing this in nearly every thread I post in), but pull it out. I don't mind you being a dick so much as I mind you being a stupid dick. Disagree with me intelligently, don't just get pissy because I say something you don't like or because you just don't like me. It causes you to say things that make you look foolish.

 

Hoover has become a hell of a blocker. Go back to the 2004 season and watch who grades the way for Stephen Davis. Hell Davis even bought him a present (a car I think) because of the work he did. But as I've said its a useless argument.

 

What did Umenyiora do? I just said he went right around him and nearly killed Foster. (ah, good to see that you edited that out after asking a question I answered in the post right above yours) You don't remember the play where the Giants were whooping and hollaring, slapping Umenyiora on the head? You don't remember the one where the announcers thought Foster had been stopped short as well, but it turned out that he got it by just the nose of the ball?

Nope, Hoover wasn't the one blowing open holes for Davis in 2003. I have the tapes that prove he wasn't. Jeno James was handling those duties, and one of the reasons a pulling guard becomes so critical for us is that Hoover can't create holes, he can only seal off defenders. That's why we weren't able to have the same kind of running game in 2004, not only because of injuries but because we had no more blockers capable of creating a hole. And sometimes sealing off defenders is good enough, but in short yardage it is critically important to have blockers who can actually push opposing players backwards.

By all means, give me any one play where Hoover actually blew someone backwards. I have all the games, so just cite the play and I'll watch it. Prove me wrong. But in the meantime, get off your high horse long enough to acknowledge that I'm the one of us who actually produced some evidence. Maybe I'm not the one who refuses to admit being wrong after all.

 

but you are wrong. if ya wanna send me copies the games (i don't keep copies other than the playoffs just for the reason that i don't wanna spend hours pouring over tapes especially when i found that even with the "facts" or "evidence" i'm unable to persuade mags), i will find you dozens of examples where he blew someone backwards and outa the whole hole (couldn't resist). i once thought the same as you and felt like he didn't block worth a damn but the following year his blocking improved so much i had to eat my words. so, i noticed him a lot and can tell you that he is a damn fine blocker.

>> but in short yardage it is critically important to have blockers who can actually push opposing players backwards.

i'm surprised that mags hasn't chimed in here as he as long been bitter over the type of linemen the org seems to favor, which isn't road graders (sorry linda if i'm still screwing up this term and the spelling ... how's it go again?). i tend to agree with him that we don't favor road graders and that we haven't really had those kind of guards, which along with RBs and TEs that don't get open or catch worth a damn is why some mite contend that we have have trouble at the goal line. (interesting that the TEs have caught at least 2 TDs in our first two preseason games ... Seidman could be huge factor this year).

and just outa curiousity so that i know i'm not fighting a battle based on a bad supposition, are there stats out there on how the pathers rank at the goalline compared to other teams?

 

Actually, not having over analysed the game nor having the game in front of me...I used YOU as my source. As in if Hoover's standing in front of Umenyiora holding his hands how is he making the tackle? Maybe I misread what you intended to say but you do tend to blame the wrong people for failure...

The rest of your paragraph is just paranoid rambling. You give yourself too much credit to think I'm shadowing you. When I decide to get pissy you'll know it. As it stands, I happen to respect your knowledge of the game but must, must, must remind myself that too much of what you say is taking objective facts (which is good) and surrounding them with subjective opinions (which is fine)...but when someone else looks at the same objective facts and comes up with their own subjective opinion you fall into an "I've a godlike omnipotent level of understanding," "My powers are beyond your comprehension," "Eat it or wear it," type of rhetoric that usually ends with you calling people with different opinions stupid dicks...

Brilliant!

 

There must be a blue moon or something because it seems like I'm agreeing with Magnus on everything the last couple of days, but he's also right that you have gone off the deep end for some reason. You're pissier than usual, you're more belligerent, and you're making an ass out of yourself by being completely and utterly wrong on a number of subjects instead of being your usual self. Normally you're still wrong, but you do it almost apologetically instead of somehow forgetting that you actually don't know much at all about football (something you have admitted several times to me and others) and pretending like you know more than I do.

I'm not wrong about this, and it's laughable for you in particular to say otherwise when you have absolutely no evidence or even an argument to suggest why I might be wrong.

Dude, the reason you don't break down tape is partially because you don't care enough to do so, but more importantly, you just wouldn't know what to do. You can throw the collected works of Shakespeare into the monkey cage at the zoo, but they're just going to crap on it.

Yes, not that it would do you any good. As an aside, isn't it a bit unfair that I'm the only one who ever bothers to actually look anything up? Instead of being lazy and depending upon me to get the numbers all the time, how about getting off your @$$ and actually looking something up on occasion? I know I've already given you links to stats resources in several threads already, and this information is there too. But because you're probably not capable of finding it, here are some facts for you:

We have been near the bottom in rushing touchdowns each of the last four seasons. During that period, only Cleveland, Detroit, Washington, and Tampa Bay have fewer rushing touchdowns. Unfortunately short yardage stats are just accessible by player and not by team through NFL.com, but you can look at Stephen Davis' career and see that despite his impressive 2003 numbers, his short yardage stats were much worse in Carolina than they had been in Washington. Davis had 205 short yardage carries for 652 yards (a 3.2 avg) with the Redskins. Meanwhile he's had 35 short yardage carries for 70 yards (a 2.0 avg) with us.

 

Where have I done that? That's simply not true. What is true is that you're consistently saying stupid things regarding my opinions. I gave you a play, you ran your mouth without knowing what you were talking about, and you embarrassed yourself. You would have been better off keeping your mouth shut, or else asking for clarification instead of being a smartass by mistakenly thinking that Hoover's mistake didn't mean anything. It did.

I'd be paranoid if I was actually worried about you instead of just annoyed at how stupid you're making yourself look by immaturely quibbling with everything I have to say, from Morgan to this nonsense.

I don't call people stupid dicks unless they're being stupid dicks. Facts are facts, and while I acknowledge that some of you simply aren't capable of processing them or understanding them that quickly, it's not my fault that you're slow to catch on. But like with this particular issue, whether or not Hoover is the right FB for our system is debatable. Whether or not he is a good or even decent short yardage FB is not. Hoover sucks in short yardage. The film and the stats show that beyond the shadow of any doubt, and I've given you evidence to prove that. Do you have any evidence to the contrary? No. Do you have anything besides flapping gums? No.

 

I disagreed wtih you regarding Morgan? I didn't know that. Please enlighten my oh master (Sorry buddy, you're being paranoid).

Hey, I misread your post and I was wrong. I admitted that. But you have to use this one post (not even taking a side in the Hoover debate BTW) and making it into me doggging you. Please. Now, as to you're "evidence" you discuss "one" play specifically and then point to you tape collection and generalities for definitive proof. Fine, that is your expert opinion based on your knowledge of the game. Now, if I were to ask Fox, Henning, Hurney or the linebackers who practice with him daily if they agreed with you what do you think their expert opinion would be? Again, I'm tickled you have an informed opinion but please...it's just an opinion.