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The review is up. I'm fucking tired and it's late, so please point out any errors you might notice.

 

Other than the evidence of them practicing this all week, and Fox's own words stating that they called the play, and the idea that Gamble wouldn't have simply thrown it to no one in theory, why would Marshall have blockers and why would he be running up the other sideline from the call for any other reason? Remember, Marshall has to come from the line to set this up. He's not going to be standing on the other hash at the kick. Him being out there, and/or any other players being out there, would be a tipoff, not that the play wasn't read already.

The reasons this wouldn't have been a called play would really make Fox look like a weak little prick. The reaction wasn't laced with profanity, it was marked with one word of it, easily reaction to the play result and the poor throw. Do you believe that's all John Fox would do if someone disobeyed him AND screwed up that royally?

 

I like how you insist that you don't try to piss me off, that it's all paranoia on my part.

He didn't. You already admitted to this in the chat yesterday. Remember how you were saying it wasn't unusual for Marshall to have no blocking since the Music City Miracle didn't have blocking either, until I actually provided proof that the MCM did actually have blocking? If Marshall had any blocking, he wouldn't have been lit up when he tried to recover the ball, and there would presumably be someone pictured behind him here:

Check out this shot from the Atlanta game:



Sure looks like the positioning on the lateral, doesn't it?


Come on, you should know the guys defending the gunner on the opposite side of the returner are often out that wide, usually to set blocks if he decides to cut back across the field.

#1) Marshall wasn't in position at the time of the catch, which you'd think he would be for some sort of risky trick play.

#2) It took Marshall three seconds to even get into the frame, and he was still 5 yards in front of Gamble when Chris threw it.

#3) There was no blocking set up for Marshall even though the Vikings had been sending men to cover the cut back all day.


And regarding Fox, he says the call went through him, but most of us believe he'd say that even if it weren't true in order to take the heat off of Gamble and Crossman. As noted, he doesn't approve Henning's calls or Trgovac's calls. I'm not trying to get him out of any responsibility, it's just very hard to believe from all the available evidence that he would actually sign off on it. Does anyone think he approved the call not to run a fake prevent three plays later? Fox's reaction wasn't just disappointment that the play didn't work, but shock. As noted, he wouldn't even talk to Gamble when he was pulled out of the game. Does that sound like something a coach would do if it he had actually approved the call? Crossman was comforting Gamble and presumably telling him it was a bad decision to make that throw, but Fox wouldn't talk to either of them.


Now if you actually have any facts or screenshots of your own to offer, I'm all ears, but if you're just going to argue with me because you enjoy arguing with me, let's don't.

 

All I'm doing is disagreeing with you. I stated my belief, you stated yours. The coach backed mine. You have an impressive demonstration, and I applaud your effort, but you're still standing on the same things - the coach isn't being truthful, and he said "what the fuck". And I'm sorry, I have the right to disagree with you. It reflects poorly if you complain every time I say something to you and you try to play the "you're just disagreeing because it's me" crap.

I did state that. And then we talked about how punt returners don't have wedge blocking, and how Marshall wouldn't have already been up there waiting for the ball. The idea of the play (which was practiced all week) was to draw coverage to the other side. Having a man stand out there on the opposite hash with two blockers in front of him, which PRs don't have anyway, would've looked ridiculously obvious.

this is true, but doesn't keep it from being true that he was still out there without any other reason.

Yes, it does.
Doesn't mean Marshall didn't have the same responsibility. Or he didn't, of course, that could go either way. Overall, Marshall's positioning is on Marshall, and Gamble threw to where he believed a player was, on purpose.

The responsibility for what happened on the field is Gamble's. The call was likely Crossman's. But it was a call, and John Fox knew about it.

It wasn't shock. I honestly do not believe the reaction was of him having seen something on the field run that he didn't expect to see. If players or coaches conspired to do something without his knowledge, he would've ripped into everyone involved and we both know that.

I'm arguing because I believe differently. I don't have screenshots, but the team practicing this all week is all I need to know. Of course, I took the coach's word for it too. I don't see any reason for him to outright lie.

 

I just explained the reason and gave you a screenshot from the Atlanta game proving that Marshall was in the same place on that return. You going to tell me that a lateral was called on that play as well?

Everyone else except you and Purr seems to understand why he would take the blame even if he didn't deserve it. It's what good leaders do. They take the heat off their subordinates, even if they then blister the walls with those guys in private.

 

Who's to say it was or wasn't?

I understand that he would. It's just not the case. Just as "what the fuck was that" wasn't at all indicative of there being some conspiracy to call something behind Fox's back.

 

I gotta think Gamble mistook the ref for Marshall.

 

yep. said that from the beginning. He threw at the ref. He assumed someone was going to be back there, he looked, and threw.

 

So instead of that screenshot being proof that you were wrong about Marshall only being out there on a called lateral, you say it's possible that we also called the lateral on the first punt return against Atlanta? Dude, that is priceless.

Kind of makes you wonder why Marshall wasn't, doesn't it? I mean for a called play, wouldn't you expect that Richard would be a little closer than still five yards upfield three seconds after Gamble caught the punt?

 

I said it was just as possible. It's no less proof than "what the fuck was that?" and more proof than "he didn't have blocking".

Mistakes happen. Gamble wasn't throwing the ball out of bounds obviously, he was obviously executing something that was expected to be there. He screwed up, but he didn't just suddenly out of a whim decide to throw the ball away. Was Marshall out of position? Sure. Was he supposed to be? No. Is the staff outright lying? No.