John Fox on Chris Weinke

I think he meant the pick that would have gone to whoever, had we traded for Leftwich. I'm pretty sure it would've taken more than a 4 or 5 though.

Gross has been steady, and not as great as I ever imagined. But he doesn't look far off from where Brockermeyer was as a rook - and no one ever said he'd actually be dominant (a reasonable expectation from a top ten, but that's not the point).

 

True.

He's better than Tuten in all phases, and equaly to Terry at his best. And he'll get better, one assumes.

But lets wait on the Gross statue, for now, is all I'm saying.

 

>> he has given up a sack

really? which game was that? i know he got pushed back close to the QB a couple of times in the first couple of games but was rock solid against GB ... i think. his run blocking is not as strong but it's better than what we had last year. i've been pleasantly surprised by the guy. he was a solid pick ... though i'd rather have had leftwich

>> I assume you were talking about Manning who we gave up a pick for.

i was thinking we had a couple of fourths to play with in the draft and that basically leftwich woulda cost us Gross and a fourth. since we used one to trade up with to get manning, i figured we woulda had to trade the other to get lefty. so i'm kinda thinking the comparison is lefty vs gross and morehead, which i figured i'd keep up with over the years.

>> O line still hasn's been dominanant

but the pass protection is much, much better than last year primarily due to Gross. and, primarily because of him we will be better on offense. if Foster comes back and we get a change at QB, we could be significantly better with the other additions (Davis, Ricky, Young and Seidman). and by that i don't mean statistically. i mean that we will score enough points and maintain leads by controlling the ball longer to win more games ... i hope.

 

Giants game, I think, Gross gave up a sack.

I think he's a competent Left Tackle type we have playijg Right Tackle for now.

He is strong as hell so the run blocking will come, IMO. All I'm saying is he, and the line, isn't significantly better. James may give us more toughness than Nesbit, and more consistentancy, and right now Gross is equal to Terry on a good day. That's better, but not substantially.

And I'm afraid our depth still sucks.

 

our pass protection isn't elite. And neither is Gross'. Good enough, at the least, and very good at times, but I've not seen our OL dominate anyone. Not even Washington. That was handling a DL, but not dominating, and it seems like since then we've not controlled the LOS consistently since.

 

I would very much like to know, based on what you have seen of our 1st team offense, why you think we will rise out of the cellar. Better pass protection; Peete still can't throw a TD. Better RB; Davis has yet to score. Just where has this O improved. I hope I'm wrong but I think maybe Fox is the main problem with the O.

Fox really improved this teams standing. That's true, but the O went nowhere. That's what I meant by saying 1/2 this board could do as well as this O is doing. After they would only have one place to fall.

 

First off, I'm with you in that I wasn't happy with our offseason aquisitions and draft picks. I'm still not happy though they look somewhat better than I expected. Mags has convinced me that we need weapons and offensive speed. That we didn't get them in the passing game is depressing. Still,

Jake -- looks promising to me. I'm hoping that Fox is trying to keep the pressure off of him by sticking with Peete while giving Jake time to get comfortable in the offense. Peete's a good guy and all, I just don't want him starting for me. I won't get into the Weinke argument except to say I'd start him now over Peete just on hope and cuz Peete is sucking. Still, I'm not as convinced in him as many.

Dyson -- bad luck, I guess. Funny though how happy everyone was pre-draft with our WRs. Key injuries are killers to any team. Fox has worked hard to improve our depth in all areas.

Gross -- guess I'm the only one enthralled by the guy (and I probably hated this pick more than most at the time). I think he will make a huge difference in our ability to pass. Even Peete will complete more and take less sacks than he did last year. Unfortunately, he also may survive to start longer.

Ricky P. -- pleasantly surprised with him. He is a huge upgrade over our 3rd WR last year.

Young and Seidman -- will also help

Davis and Foster -- much improved RBs. If Foster can play ... lookout! Davis looks like he can do more than just dive up between the tackles like Lamar.

Those players add up to an improved offense.

Last year's offense stunk, no duh. But we were kinda strapped by the cap and piss-poor talent on both sides of the ball. Fox made defense his first priority and it worked out pretty well. He wasn't gonna make a 1-15 team a playoff team overnite. He did well to win 7 games.

This year they set out to improve the offense with several offseason acquisitions and draft picks. I'd preferred Leftwich and a couple of notable offensive weapons to Gross, Nelson and Manning. Course half the board was wanting a DB with the 1st pick (primarily due to the lack of sure-fire offensive weapons at our draft position). Its hard to say and all speculation now.

Fox has set on a course that he has not waivered from since he got here. I like that in him and so far he has been successful even though I shake my head often. So until he's not successful and it all comes crumbling down, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that he can get us to the glory land with his plan even if I have a hard time picturing how it's gonna happen. I see the same things as you and I worry. Only difference is that I keep reminding myself that he's having success, even if it's boring, and that's ultimately hard to argue with. And well, I also don't get caught up in statistics. And too, I like cheering for the Panthers ... so I try to stay optimistic.

Honestly, I like Fox better than any coach of a team I've rooted for since Bum Phillips and Jeff Fisher. The guys are playing hard and smart(er) and he is improving our starting talent level as well as our depth. And if Foster makes it back we could be in for some exciting days.

It'll be interesting to see just how well Henning does with his new toys.

 

I'm very impressed too. He's just gotten started, and it takes OL awhile to get going. He may be our best OL right now. If he doubles his effectiveness, we'll be in great shape.

 

LDE, do you really think Gross is better right now than both Steussie and Mitchell? I'm not trying to be facetious, I'm genuinely curious. :huh:

 

>>LDE, do you really think Gross is better right now than both Steussie and Mitchell? I'm not trying to be facetious, I'm genuinely curious.

I'm wondering this, too. At least what it's being based on. He's going to make mistakes, and I don't mind that, but that he's our best lineman as far as production?
At the very least, he's made as many mistakes as anyone on the first unit. He's given up some pressure. He's taking a lot deeper drops before contact than the other tackles. This, largely, noted from tape study. I still have tape from GB and NYG, so if you have anything in particular I should see, let me know. I'm not looking for an argument, but I do disagree fairly strongly and want to see growth.