Donnie Edwards

Comparable doesn't matter. It's not valid in the equation Collin's putting out.

It'd be awesome to have all kinds of people. It doesn't mean we need to do it. Either what we have is good enough, or it isn't. To me, it is. If it's not, someone will have to convince me and not just be a fanboy about a player.

Don't whine. It's not different from what I'm saying.

 

*sigh* Honestly, magnus, it's terribly annoying that you pretend to take the high road and then come to this thread with the very obvious purpose of trying to create a fight where one was totally unnecessary. Please don't go down that road again.

He does want more money, but nothing in your link said anything about $5 million a year, did it? Am I wrong? Did I miss that somewhere? No. You were speculating, which is fine, but I think some people were under the mistaken impression that your opinion as to his salary demands was informed rather than a guess. And his desire for an extension has been mentioned in numerous articles and interviews. Through the course of his contract he has been drastically underpaid by NFL standards, and he wanted more financial security than that. He's been asking for a raise and an extension since he was making a little over $1 million in '03, so his desire is understandable.

[sarcasm]Yes, I'm obviously suggesting that after we trade Edwards, he will remove his mask and magically become Derrick Brooks.[/sarcasm] Christ, magnus, I don't know why you get so pissy about this stuff and look for fights, only to later complain about how I always fight with you. Everyone else in the world gets what I'm saying when I compare Donnie Edwards to Derrick Brooks, and no one else on the planet seems to have a problem with it. It's a valid comparison and a useful one, so please get over whatever your issue is.

I hadn't actually expressed a stance one way or the other until you took yours against trading for him. In fact, I'm still not saying I'd definitely make the deal because I do have a hang up about the third rounder, but I find it irresponsible for you to state contract demands in a fashion that suggests you know that's what he wants rather than it being a total guess on your part.

Edwards might want $9 billion a year for all I know and care, but I was stating what he had a realistic chance of getting. You throw around $5 million a year as a scare tactic to get people on your side against the possible trade. Neither of us knows what exactly he wants or what exactly Hurney would offer, but I stand by my position that players at that level and his age don't get super contracts the way they do when they're on the right side of 30. Ray Lewis is about the same age and wants a crapload of new money, but did you see the Ravens demonstrating a willingness to pay him that? No.

That's your opinion and it's fine that you think so. I imagine that some people will think that one of the best weakside linebackers in the game might be worth a third, especially if it's the last piece helping us to win the Super Bowl. The draft pick is the one hang up for me, because I'd gladly part with a fourth for one year of his services, but the problem is that you're pretending as if not extending him is not even an option.

No, it doesn't, but it's funny to see you downplay the possibility when you're the one who created the thread to discuss it.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I assure you that I don't care about convincing you. It is my opinion that when you're behaving like this, you have made your mind up and will not change it regardless of the facts, figures, or logic presented in opposition. I'm simply rounding out the picture so that everyone else can have a basic understanding of the situation since many probably aren't familiar with Edwards. In fact, I'd be very, very surprised if you knew as much or had seen as much of Edwards as I have. I also like that anytime someone disagrees with you about a player, they're suddenly a "fanboy." Trashman is a fanboy of Morgan, and even admits as much, because he ignores all the facts and defends Dan regardless. Absolutely nothing you've presented in any way suggests that I have been misleading in my characterization of Edwards, so the only recourse you apparently have is to take shots at me.

I'm certainly not whining, and moreover, you know that. You've gotten defensive and are looking for a fight which you will then blame on me. Could we please just avoid that altogether? Personally I've found the recent truce to be much less stressful.

 

I'm not looking for a fight. And you've gotta stop pretending that you don't have a choice in your own actions.

It's very, very safe to say he's not looking for less money. It's obvious that the OLB market has exploded since he got paid. It's obvious that he finds himself a top-tier player. Witherspoon got more than $5 million.

I believe it is, too. And he's aging, so his want to be signed through age 37-38 is really important to him.
I honestly believe he's worth $5 million. By the market, anyway. I believe he's better than most of the guys getting paid. I just don't want us to pay that. And there's no reason we should lay out a 3rd and just have a player for a year.

For one, I'm not complaining. And two, I'm saying pretty much

In fact, I'm still not saying I'd definitely make the deal because I do have a hang up about the third rounder, but I find it irresponsible for you to state contract demands in a fashion that suggests you know that's what he wants rather than it being a total guess on your part.

it's not a scare tactic. It's what I believe he wants, and he's not going to take 4.2 million right after bitching so much about getting 3.8 million four years ago. I believe $5 million is much more realistic to what his wants are. And that's too much money for us to spend.


Neither of us knows what exactly he wants or what exactly Hurney would offer, but I stand by my position that players at that level and his age don't get super contracts the way they do when they're on the right side of 30. Ray Lewis is about the same age and wants a crapload of new money, but did you see the Ravens demonstrating a willingness to pay him that? No.
That's your opinion and it's fine that you think so. I imagine that some people will think that one of the best weakside linebackers in the game might be worth a third, especially if it's the last piece helping us to win the Super Bowl. The draft pick is the one hang up for me, because I'd gladly part with a fourth for one year of his services, but the problem is that you're pretending as if not extending him is not even an option.

Why? Would I only have posted it if I had been super-masturbatory excited to have Edwards here under any circumstances? Or could I have posted it even knowing that the need is small, and the price is large?

Oh - I get it. The old "you're not going to change your opinion even though i'm pretending I've shown overwhelming evidence that my opinion's right" act. That's really pretty neat, to pull it out this early. You don't have numbers, so I have no idea what all this Perry Mason "facts, figures, or logic" you've supposedly shown exists.


But here's the thing. You're presenting "would you trade for Derrick Brooks, for just a 3rd rounder?" without adding in the obvious - age and paying him almost as much or as much as Morgan. You don't add that into the contract. Sure, everybody's going to trade for Derrick Brooks, based just on that. Which is why I called it campaigning. It's not a matter of "showing all sides", because you jumped that before anybody really challenged it.

I'd love to have picked up Edwards in March. I'd love to have him on this team, from a bland, generic standpoint where there's not a cap, or there's a hole on paper at WLB. I'd probably be more willing to make the trade if Morgan was out and/or Diggs was out for the year. I think there's this implication that I'm completely ignorant of Edwards (which you condescendingly add below) and have no idea of his worth, and just don't want to pick him up.

Which is nice of you to assume all those things and get on my ass, just because I don't believe we need to make this trade.

search how much I've used the expression. I think you've proclaimed how much you like him, enough to be called one. You wanted him to be considered D POTY. And who else has? Hell, he hasn't even made a Pro Bowl. Should he have? Sure. But it's obvious most don't believe he's POTY material. I don't.

I think he's a fine player. I've said over and over again that he's a better linebacker than anything we have. I've also said we won't do it and that we don't need to do it. So I don't see the need to show the faux outrage you're showing.

It honestly seems the other way around, with how much you're talking about me and how funny it was to see you quote Thelt saying pretty much the same thing and you calling that "something you can respect." .

 

Comparable doesn't matter. It's not valid in the equation Collin's putting out.


If its comparable, then its valid. Sure, Brooks is Brooks, and Edwards is Edwards. And?? But if the two are comparable, its certainly valid to ask someone if they'd do it for one player, and if they would, why wouldnt they do it for the other. That being said, I get your point that we dont need Edwards. Do I agree with that? Yeah.


It would be awesome to have all kinds of people. It doesnt mean we need to do it.


Luckily I never said we did. However, stories arent being leaked that the Panthers are interested in all kinds of people. It was Donnie Edwards.


Either what we have is good enough, or it isn't. To me, it is.


Good enough? Yes. At this junction, I believe so. WHat do we have behind Diggs, who is injury prone, however? Unless Seward is playing the weakside, which he isnt as far as the depth chart is concerned, no one Im comfortable with.


If it's not, someone will have to convince me and not just be a fanboy about a player.


Eh. Im not going to try to convince anyone of anything. It doesnt matter to me if you want him here or not, so as far as being a fanboy, thats my business if I think it would be cool to have him here. I personlly dont give a fuck whether you or anyone else wants him here or not. THe team will either get him here, or they wont, and Im willing to lay a big chunk of change that they wont, so its pretty moot. Bottom line is do we need him? Probably not. Would he be an upgrade? Yeah, definately. Is there a rumor that we are interested? Yes. So Ill talk about it however I choose, and not worry about convincing anyone of anything.

 

Yes, you are. Anyone can see that you're being hostile and provocative, and I imagine you're getting that way because you're again pre-emptively defensive about a slight you anticipate but haven't yet seen. And yes I do have a choice in my own actions, which is why I'm currently keeping my cool and asking you to avoid this instead of taking opportunities to follow your lead and open up on you.

Did you miss what I said regarding Edwards' age? I didn't think you would because I mentioned it several times in this thread alone, but from the comment, it seems as if you might have. To reiterate the distinction, Edwards is 33 while Witherspoon is 26. Even if Edwards expected WW-type money, he's not going to get it from anyone, and I doubt he's that unrealistic.

Huh? Four years ago, in the first year of his contact with San Diego, his base was $525k. His $3.55 this year will be the most he's made in a season.

The way you grossly exaggerate when you get upset is amusing. In any case, no, I'm not implying that you had to support the decision in order to post the thread. I'm saying that it's odd to discourage consideration of the idea when you're the one that created the thread.

Actually I listed some of his previous contract numbers, with the small amounts at the beginning of his contract going a long way toward explaining why he's upset. I also pointed out that we went through a similar situation with Kevin Greene. More numbers came in the form of Edwards' statistical excellence in recent years, showing just how dramatic an upgrade he would be, whether or not it's one we "should" make.

Dude, what are you talking about? I am the one who has been talking about his age from the beginning. I specifically stated that the Brooks comparison was particularly apt because they're the same age (Donnie is 12 days older). Moreover, you're again pretending that you know how much Edwards would require for an extension, and that we'd somehow have to offer him an extension at all. Neither of those are true.

Not completely, no, but I'd be surprised if you were as familiar with him as I am. Because of IDP articles for the magazine in recent years, I've made the effort to watch him in a number of games. I simply doubt that you've had reason to invest the same sort of attention.

A fanboy is someone who is so slavishly devoted to a person that they ignore reality, especially things that dispute the person's greatness. I'm pretty sure you haven't even attempted to say that I've mischaracterized Edwards, primarily because you realize it's an argument you would lose badly. Moreover, it's not even as if I came out immediately saying "Yes, we must do this trade!" My initial comment of "I still don't know how I'd feel about giving up a third, though" seems pretty fair and balanced to me.

But then again, you pretend that I'm obsessed with a player any time you can't actually argue with me on the facts about them. Notice how you do it every time I mention the name "Mangold," simply because you were so ferociously against us drafting a center. You did the same thing with Kellen Clemens before you found out that NFL teams thought just as highly of him as I did. It's a pattern for you even though I'm the one who has been coldly logical about evaluating player and coach performance, while you're the one who is well documented about being heavily biased for or against certain players and coaches. Hell, Peppers went to my favorite school, was someone I gushed about, and yet I correctly pointed out flaws in his game and criticized his performances when they deserved it. I'm not the one who has fanboy issues, but you level that accusation at me whenever you find it convenient.

Dr. Z of SI did two years ago. His article on how Edwards was winning game after game with timely plays was one of the things that made me devote extra attention to him.

I'm 100% fine with you not thinking we need to make the move. I might even agree. I'm not fine with you deceptively pretending that you know how much he'd require in an extension, that we'd somehow be forced to give him an extension at all, or you being a complete ass because you're once again defensive about something. You made this a fight when it didn't need to be at all.

This is what people mean when they talk about you being paranoid and hyper-sensitive. I was both contrasting Thelt's comments against rake's (whose statements I had dismissed previously), and also showing that I don't just automatically discount everything Thelt had to say. That wasn't about you, but you got pissy because you're always defensive and then pre-emptively looked for a fight that wasn't necessary.

 

You guys are some quoting fools. Realistically what are the chances the Panthers get Edwards

 

No, I'm not. It seems what I'm saying is bothering you, and I called you a fanboy which seemed to upset you, but these things aren't worth being upset over.

And Edwards believes he's a top tier player. 33 doesn't keep a lot of players from looking for top money. And I pointed out Edwards' age in the first few posts of this thread.

Obviously, I'm talking about his contract value, not one year salary. That's what I'm talking about when I say "$3.8 million a year" and "$5 million a year". I have no idea why that would be unclear.

Four years ago he had a contract value, and he's not looking to match that in an extension he's willing to sit out for. He's almost certainly looking for more, and if it were equal or lesser value, the Chargers would've wrapped him up for cap reasons alone.

It's not. It's not indicative of intentions at all. And it's a puzzling thing to continue discourse about.

every contract starts out smaller in the first few years. The NFL had to pass the Deion Sanders clause for just this purpose, but all that did was force signing bonuses higher. That he made $525,000 in 2001 is irrelevant to what the contract paid over its lifetime. If he were that worried about simply making $3.3 million, he'd be in camp with his mouth shut.

there's no reason to trade for him and not sign an extension.
The Chargers could trade him off without getting Edwards' approval, but since it's about money, it would be a disaster. This is just my opinion, but someone willing to be traded over money is probably looking for money. And you don't take a stand for $17 more than you're making.

You were trying to be condescending.

And with the "Brooks-for-a-3rd" talk, and "I felt he should've been POTY", sounds like campaigning. Maybe it's not. I'm more than able to say I'm wrong, and maybe I am since you're not openly suggesting we do this.

But it makes your anger right now much, much more puzzling.

I knew full well of m4ng0ld!!!!!!!!!!1111, and you were outright lobbying for him. I didn't find the need, wanted a vet. I'm glad the team thought so too, because I didn't feel like he was a top 25 player. We ended up getting one.

My problem with Clemons was the implication of drafting him here. That we didn't feel he was of the same worth in where he would be taken.

Either way, it's certainly possible, and plausible, that you can have a mancrush on a guy and be really, really defensive about that I don't feel the same way. Enough that you're bringing it up months later.

I called you a fanboy. If it didn't stick, it wouldn't have been a problem, now would it? Seems like an easy enough thing to dismiss.

And honestly, be real. Don't sit there and pretend you're doing me some sort of favor by not bitching at me for everything I say. Doesn't mean "bitch at me and everyone else for anything you might not like", either.

 

If they want him, they can go get him. The pick the Chargers want is stated, leaving just a deal with Edwards to clear up.

 

I agree with Mags, re: age/money demands. He will ask what he feels worthy of.


Moose.

 

I actually thought you called ME a fanboy. And yeah, it did kinda irritate me a bit, but I opened myself up to it, by saying Donnie Edwards as a Panther would fucking rock.

Eh...either way. I still hope it happens, I wont lie, because I am being a motherfucking fanboy.

In all seriousness, personally, I am angling for that much of an upgrade on D. I seriously think he could make that much more of an impact there for us, and I wouldnt object us making that kind of move, if we believe were just a few pieces shy of a Superbowl.