Core players

Wahle had been a Pro Bowler, I believe. Gross, Davis, these other guys haven't. That's what puts caution into me on this move.

I liked Graham. Wanted him at TE. In the end, the Broncos gave him $5 mil and he was, and is, a part time starter whose numbers are far too close to Mangum's (aside from TDs). I agree the market is nuts, and that you have to pay to play.

Don't know. Move Wharton over and pit Butler against another guy? Start Bridges and draft a guy behind him? Invest a top pick, and pit Wharton against Bridges?

It's not really possible to pull off losing Wharton and Gross. Wharton won't get $7 mil a year. I just can't see that. Is the difference that great between the two? That's not to say sign Wharton instead, or he's more deserving. But that we don't have any other option but to sign Gross? No.

that's the hard part about this. It's huge money and the team likes to spend it on their own guys. Makes them think they're doing something right and keeping something together. That's the attitude you use on Julius Peppers, not Gross. Gross I can't even argue as our best lineman. Who can make that argument? Who else this talented gets walked back from the snap like that?

In the end, I can't see Smitty's worth = Gross' worth. That's where my line's drawn. Otherwise, sure, I'd love to have five, six years more mediocrity out of Gross.

Even though Wharton gave up more sacks in 05, partly in scheme because we wouldn't help out on guys like Alex Brown, it was hard to tell the difference between the two guys. And if a top ten is playing like a top 90, two top 90s and a third for good measure? Who knows.

The worst part is I can totally see us franchising Gross next year and then paying him a ton.

 

......and we pick on the Panther drafts....Packers took Tony Mandarich with Barry Sanders on the board!

 

So - if we all agree that Gtross will cost a ton, how much is Wharton worth, if he is able to return to 2005 form?

I'm curious to see what he'll get, from us or someone else.

 

Meat: Agreed that none of us like it, but that's the market. And yeah -- I really don't see a viable way of getting around paying Gross. He's not the best lineman, but he probably is our best tackle, which ain't saying much. Still, it would be more expensive to upgrade, and I don't think we'll have the cap room to do it.

Magnus: Yeah -- if Gross ends up being paid more than Smitty, that'll be all kinds of wrong. All hell will break loose.

On the optimist's side, here's something to consider -- under Davidson's new offense (and particularly the new zone blocking scheme), Gross and Wharton both may have breakout years. As I understand zone blocking, it seems to suit their strengths (mobility, quickness) and minimize their weaknesses (strength, power) a lot more than a man-blocking or power scheme. Or am I wrong?

 

If that's the case - Butler may also excel. SOOPER DOOPER optimist.

 

$4 mil a year, given the current market. Probably something like that. In other words, what I figure he's worth, plus 25%.

They're hyping him.

Apparently we redshirted some bitches last year. Theoretically good development and really shitty drafting, I guess. Butler and McClover are the talk of minicamp, where Kalil and Johnson are essentially in the same position but more talented. The only thing anyone had to say about Johnson from the writers is "smaller than we thought", i.e., you read he was 280 and whether he weighed that or not, he didn't look Julius Peppers-sized big.

But McClover/Butler gain the weight and size they should've had anyway, and they get lauded. But I'll agree that any improvement to meet the hype is good news. Up to now it's all been hype - guys not wanting to draft an end because, wait, we have McClover? Yikes.

 

agreed. But $52million over 7 years is what Smitty got per year, plus a larger assumed bonus because of the extra year.

Gross hasn't ever been weak in run blocking and that's not going to change, but he still won't be anywhere near dominant. Wharton does very well driving on an angle, especially sealing behind pullers, so he'll do very well in this scheme. It won't change Wharton's relative issues with fast rushers (quick feet, but maybe a quarter step too slow; a good wide frame but a very average wingspan) or Gross' (giving up too much room, despite usually getting off the snap fast and getting into his man), so pass blocking will mainly be aided by better scheme (potentially anyway), better guard/center play (inevitable), and less predictability. Sack numbers never were atrocious for Wharton/Gross or the team in general 2001-2006, but pressure had been issues at time in 05 and certainly 06.

 

Do you think that Gross' annoying exaggerated drop is something that Davidson and Magazu have prioritized to change this offseason? With the carte blanc Davidson seems to have been given, and the changes he's made already, I can't imagine (especially considering Davidson was an offensive lineman) that seeing Jordan's ridiculous drop on film would be okay with him.

 

We never had a decent tackle on this team prior to Gross. That is why I am fearful to see him leave.

 

Who knows if that can be fixed. I'd like to think that they're going to drill that out of him, because the extended drop only keeps his momentum going straight back instead of outward radially - which is where you want to go unless you can anchor and bully a bullrusher.


Brockermeyer was decent. Not great, but a little bit above average.
I liked Terry, but he never really stopped giving up sacks. He always had ~10-15. Granted Beuerlein and Weinke aren't the most mobile and each had problems getting rid of the damn ball in 00,01 respectively.