Peyton Manning

Yeah, it's incredible how you made a Peyton Manning thread into a Moose thread.

 

We'll see Confucius.

 

I don't know how I've made a 180. I've never posted any conclusions like "we need to keep Muhammad", which is what I feel, and shouldn't be a dire circumstance like paying a franchise QB a record amount of money; or it's inverse, "we should cut Muhammad in panic."

To continue the lack of 180s, I've been fully aware of Muhammad's contract this whole time.
I have, however, varied a number of degrees while attempting to turn in the direction of the point attempting to be made, and as I have yet to find that point I may in fact go around a few times. Other than to say that Muhammad is a few degrees overpaid - I'd say 20% - there didn't seem to really be any overlying conclusions and we've been chasing the phantom conclusion for a few hours, hoping to catch its scent.

It's either a team concept or it isn't. Cutting a player to afford another player retained seems to baffle both sides of that concept.

 

Why would we cut him and have dead money on the cap, when at the end of the season, he'll be bought and paid for with no committment? He'll either play out his current contract, or restructure it to spread out the cap hit. I really don't see him getting cut just to save a little cap room, when you'd have to use the exact money you save to get a starting WR that may or may not be as good, minus the cap hit from cutting him. The net effect would be zero. 53 players, $79 million dollars. Saving a few million won't allow us to have 54 players...We're in the best shape we've ever been in financially, I really don't see the need to cut off the nose to spite the face.

 

After the way he played in the playoffs and superbowl he will be back here probably for a long time. I look for us to extend converting some of his cap hit this year to bonus money that can be spread out. He is a little over paid but I do not think he will be when his new deal gets done.

Like everyone has said, worst case we let him play out the final year of his deal and then let him walk.

I am more concerned with getting Jeno James and Steve Smith resigned. Maybe Grant should be resigned too. I like our team as it stands, bring everybody back. Add a guy like Troy Vincent and draft a wide out and linebacker early and we should be set. We obviously could let Howard walk if we sign Vincent. I wish we had gotten a better look at Dyson last year maybe he comes back too.

 

Shocker - I think you're missing something. You are definitely wrong, and I'll take the time to explain it:

We are in agreement that Moose gets paid alot. Understand that quality free agents in the last year of their contract ALWAYS get paid alot. Moose is in his last year.

We have $12 million. With Moose's current deal. Moose's SALARY is roughtly under $5 million. This is high. But, it's his last year. We should be able to sign all of our free agents with $12 million - that's alot of money.

Do you understand signing bonus money and it's effect on the cap? Bonus money is ammortized over the length of a deal. A Player that receives a $5 million bonus on a 5 year deal costs a team $1 million against the cap for 5 years. Usually the first year of the contract is tiny salary, and then escalates. If a team cuts this player 2 years in, they are responsible for the final 3 years ($3million) of that bonus money against the cap IMMEDIATELY. If the player's salary is BELOW $ 3million, you lose money cutting him. If it's $4 million, you save $1 million against the cap even though he has a $4million salary.

In short - Players are paid 2 ways - salary and bonus, and each effects the cap differently.

Here's why Moose's contract is fine:

The salary of the first year of a contract is always small, because that year the player gets a signing bonus. Likewise, the last year of it is always huge, because it inflates the total amount for ego - but more importantly it enables the team to release the player AND NOT GET KILLED by the ammortized signing bonus at the end of the contract. I think we'll have over a $1 million cap hit if we cut him, but since his salary is huge, we're still saving.

Back to my point - the $12 million will be fine because If we pay Smitty, Delhomme, James, and Grant over $20 million in bonus money, that cap hit will be ammortized over the length of the contracts. In the event that we have $3 or $4 million in *SALARY* TOTAL for those 4 players, we should be able to come out EASILY within that $12 million.

Then, NEXT YEAR, when the guys we signed THIS YEAR start to have slowly escalating salaries, other big paid guys will be expired. We can sign them again, to a deal that is initially cap friendly.

Also - Moose can get the same $$$ THIS YEAR under a new contract that is more cap friendly, if we were to renegotiate his deal and pay him a bonus close to the amount of his contractual salary. We could sign Moose to a 5 year deal with a $4 million bonus and pay him $900k in slary this year and Moose gets paid AND we have an extra couple of million in cap room. And I DOUBT that if we gave him a new contract that the later years of the deal would have salaries like his current one - but it doesn't even matter.

Get it?

 

In addition to the excellent thoughts above I want to add two things.

First, it is to the benefit of the team to use every dime of their salary cap and not "make room" in years that it isn't needed. It is use it or lose it so if there is room THIS year, don't put it off paying the piper till NEXT year.

Second, the more room you make the more money the other FAs that want to sign with you are going to demand. It is a better negotiation point to have spent most of your available dollars when it's time to talk to agents of players who really want to play for us anyway. "Sorry Fox (Steve's agent) but our new cap situation really only allows us to do the following." If you have a great big $12 hole sitting in view it looks silly. Instead, our GM constrains the other agents into fitting within his well thoughtout in advance "plan."

 

I think we have basically paid the cap price for Moose in the past. This year is not that bad. He is still a decent player and I would like to have him around. He has been here since 96 and he seems like a guy that should play his whole career here. He is about the only early draft pick we made that worked out for us, him and Minter I guess. I would just as soon see us sign him to an extension that locks him up for four or five years and gives us more cap room this year. I think we can pay Smith, Delhome, James and Grant and still make a good offer to Troy Vincent. If we do that and draft a decent linebacker and receiver we should be as good as anybody next season.

 

Back to the original point........

You've got to keep your guy. We were fortunate. Very. But still, Jake could have just as easily been another Billy Joe Tolbert. That's more common.

What the Colts, and Manning, really have to do is sign a long term deal before FA begins. Then they will have some cap room to go after some FA defenders. If they don't, that will mean a bunch of restructuring just to ease the cap, robbing Peter to pay paul. That would be the mistake. Unless Peyton thinks he can have a perfect rating throughout the playoffs. With the defense now, that's what it takes.

If they get it done now, Manning can have his 18 million now, but with a 10 year deal it will be about 2.5 or 3 million in cap space. So for this year, in cap money, Manning will in fact equal a Brady, if they can get it done.

They've really are in great position to make a push with the Titans in real cap hell.