Chud gone

are you really surprised that a quarterback led the league in rushing first downs on third down? I'm not. unless it's a short third down attempt, wouldn't you be calling a pass? the pass play breaks down and the quarterback has to run. a good scrambler (and shity passer) like Cam Norton would be a prime candidate to lead the league in rushing first downs on third down.

If you want to lead the league in third-down rushing efficiency by a quarterback, then by all means, keep Ken Newsome as your starter. If you want to win ball games, it's time do ditch this overrated loser.

 

Makes sense to me

 

marvin graves would be a better option than Cal Norman

 

Reading ur posts make my balls itch...

 

This is a nice debate you guys have, I get to be lazy while you guys look up stats

My opinion is that Cam and Chud have a symbiotic relationship. I'm not sure either will be as successful without the other, unless we really knock it out of the park on the OC staff hire.

 

Does that mean they're joined at the pelvis???

 

No its not, Its not my fault you chose to ignore the ample stats ive provided.

What you proved was that he had less attempts on 3rd down. But what you also failed to note was that he had less attempts on 1st and 2nd down also (Bar Freeman on 1st down which we can assume is due to their strong running game).

So just maybe the fact that he has fewer attempts is because we had fewer sustained drives and actually is counter to your arguement of Chuds fantastic playcalling. Maybe the fact we actually started the season with a 2-8 record is evidence of that.

Your arguement of using the teams in our division is also further flawed by the fact that I already noted that NO and ATL are ranked #2 and #4 in 3rd downs efficiency respectively plus Tampa are a very run heavy team.

And while you want to focus solely on completion percentage his superior Quarterback rating proves that statistically he is converting on 3rd downs (the actual discussion) more efficiently using his feet also. The fact that he is doing so at a rate comparable to Brees and Ryan is actually quite impressive, even tho that fact has no bearing on my statement reguarding Chud.

See, thats what im talking about. You act like Cam is a shitty passer giving backhanded compliments, ignoring what he has accomplished in his short career so far. Is he perfect, without flaw or a finished article, NO, nobody is saying that, nobody is saying he doesnt have things to work on and improve, not even Cam himself. Every QB needs to learn to get better as a passer.

But when you make bold statements like he cant read a defense quite honestly you sound like a biggot. I expect to here that crap from some douchebag in Ohio who just reads Peter King or some shit, not from someone here in Carolina that actually watches the Panthers.

Eh, No, they dont, what a load of bullshit. When we go 3 wide its usually in fact really 4 wide because we use Olsen as the TE and he plays like a WR.
The only reason there would be a run in that situation was if Cam kept it. When we go run heavy, we run the friggen ball or have some retarded sneaky shitty ass pass to Brockel/Hartsock or some stupid shit because we let Shockey go.

And we both know why Josh throws less down there, now dont we.

Maybe you should take a step back from Chuds balls and take a look at the big picture.

Yes he did some great things for us in bringing along Cam. Creating a more exciting playbook using screens and TE's. But lets not deny its flaws either.
Not having Cam under center more and utilizing our RB's better and using more playaction and bootlegs. He certaintly racked up some stats but unfortunately during both his seasons here its taken him too long to get the running game going so we can get good stats in the column that really matters, WINS.

The facts are we are losing a coordinator that during 5 years of being one has only ever had one winning season, 2007, and even then they missed the playoffs. He was an interim OC in 2004 and failed, failed in 2008 and while he certaintly made our O look decent statistically last year ultimately he failed to get a winning season here. Both seasons we went 2-8 before turning the corner.

 

Not sure if you're being serious or not Grid.

Shonn Green led the league in efficiency FWIW, so its not about being the league leader in that department. Its about the amount of times weve relied on him to convert 3rd down, or should I say he has gotten us out of some sticky situations and extended drives.

Rodgers and Russell had 13 and 12 as far as other QB's go for the record.

He has about twice as many as anybody else, its pretty significant.

 

You've barely provided any statistics at all, and none that were relevant. I'm the one who has actually produced numbers regarding the frequency and nature of third downs. Here's another one for you:

Worst completion percentages on 3rd down:
32. Andy Dalton - 47.5%
31. Chad Henne - 48.2%
30. Cam Newton - 50.4%
29. Andrew Luck - 51.2%
28. Mark Sanchez - 53.6%
27. Sam Bradford - 54.3%
26. Eli Manning - 54.6%

What I showed was that the team was in fewer 3rd & longs, not fewer 3rd downs in general. 43% of Carolina's third downs were less than six yards, as opposed to 38% for Tampa Bay. Chudzinski's play-calling would affect what type of third down situation is in, but sustaining drives is all about the players executing. Cam being one of the league's most inaccurate passers undoubtedly had a strong effect on that (along with his turnovers).

Uhm ... quarterback rating doesn't include rushing statistics. You really didn't know that? He has a decent QB rating on 3rd down because of his touchdown passes on 3rd & short. You know, the situation where you bitched about Chudzinski throwing the ball. It's also funny to watch your staggering hypocrisy where you initially complained about how on 3rd & long his "qbr is heavily scewed by his TD to INT ratio," but then when you realized it was convenient for your overall argument on 3rd down you did a complete 180 and started pointing to that "heavily skewed" number.

He is. Cam Newton is the most inaccurate quarterback by far inside the red zone, and he is also one of the most inaccurate on third downs.

You sound like Warren Moon when you pretend that any criticism of a black quarterback is about him being black rather than being a bad quarterback. Moreover, you actually sound like the person who has never seen a Panthers game. Look around. No one else besides you and that unintelligible mouth-breather NFOF is trying to pretend that Cam is a good passer. No one else besides you two would be so comically deluded as to suggest that Cam made Chudzinski look good as opposed to the other way around. The rest of us have been discussing our concerns as to whether or not the next OC will have the desire and ability to help Newton as much as Chud did.

Someone who actually watched the Panthers would know that's usually what happens around the goal line. I don't have data combining formations with goal line situations, but overall, 85 of Cam's 127 rushes (67%) came with three or more receivers on the field. For DeAngelo, 93 of his 173 rushes (54%) came with three or more receivers. For Stewart, 78 of his 93 rushes (84%) came with three or more receivers. For Tolbert, 28 of his 54 rushes (52%) came with three or more receivers. Combined, they had 284 of their 447 rushes (64%) with three or more receivers on the field. Also, 9 of the team's 21 rushing touchdowns came with three or more receivers on the field, including most of Cam's.

He didn't use those things more often because Cam sucked at them when they've tried.


Look, the problem isn't that you have more passion for football than you have knowledge. That's true for most people. The problem is that you're highly belligerent despite that limitation, continuously arguing with people who know vastly more than you do, even after they present evidence proving that you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. It's not only fine but great that you share your opinion. I can only hope that you'll eventually learn to let go of those opinions once they're proven wrong, though. That's one of the ways I got to where I am. I've believed and said all kinds of dumb shit over the years, but I always get better because I discard those things once I see that they're wrong. You need to learn how to do that instead of continuing to argue with people who know a lot more than you do.

 

no, but I was serious about Marvin Graves.