Panthers vs Bears (aka the start of a 10 game win streak) gameday thread

Again:
Josh Freeman sacked twice
Drew Brees sacked once
Eli Manning sacked once
Russell Wilson sacked twice
Tony Romo sacked zero times.

You know the team has struggled to get any pressure on opposing quarterbacks, and that usually they have all day to sit back and pick apart the coverage. You're just arguing this because you insisted before the season that DE wasn't a need, and we all know that you defend your opinions to the death no matter how obviously wrong they are.

Since you decided before the season that DE wasn't a need, you have to keep pretending that is the case instead of being an obvious mistake on your part.

It doesn't have to be 350, but even in a 3-4 where the DEs are playing one-gap, the nose is playing two. 3-4 nose requires a different skill set than 4-3, and while there are some players who can do both, it would for instance be a huge waste of someone like Lotulelei or Hankins. Those guys would make a much greater impact in a 4-3.

Actually a lot of people have endorsed the idea of benching Cam temporarily, especially in this thread. The Panthers won't do it because they're pussies who won't try anything unorthodox, but it would give Newton his best chance to succeed. Just running him out there every Sunday won't change his bad habits.

 

lolno. Charles Johnson is average or slightly above, but Greg Hardy is well below average for a starting DE when not playing the Bears.

 

Dude, Kemoeatu was fucking awful here for the most part. It seemed like he made more of an effort to get leverage in short yardage situations, and for those he seemed fine, but on most plays he was easily handled by just one blocker. In fact, him starting in Baltimore this season was the main reason why their run defense went to shit. That's why they announced that they were benching him after the Houston debacle.

I absolutely agree that DT and CB are both major needs, but magnus wants to pretend that DE is fine because he said that before the season and can't ever admit to being wrong about anything.

 

I didn't say it wasn't a need at all. I even pointed out some starting level players, and there were times where I preferred Ingram or Coples to other options last year. Both last year and this year, my statement was that we didn't need to force a DE pick over other needs. I'm OK with an upgrade, but this team isn't dying if it doesn't get one. One starter is obviously entrenched, and then you have a heavy/light combo for the other. CB, we have one starter at 30 years old, and the team loses its nickel this offseason. DT there's two aging guys who bring something to the table that helps, but that one of them was brought off the trash heap shows how much it's a need.

This isn't something for your approval, or any of your typical "you're in denial" nonsense. This is my opinion. Grow up and deal with that.

no. Jay Ratliff would like a word, in various respects. The Phillips 3-4 shades. They call it a 1-technique for a reason.

I don't blame them for not doing this, and I don't think it's the best chance to succeed. Your ideal is understood, I disagree on it.

 

You stated that the only thing to address at DE would be a backup for Hardy to spell him on run downs: "You could, since Hardy was so much worse at the run than pass, argue that a backup end with more size could bring Hardy's snap count back down to manageable time. "

What? You were adamantly opposed to taking Coples, and Ingram is a 3-4 OLB.

Bullshit, because I wouldn't disagree about that. It's not that the team has to take a DE more than they have to take a DT or a CB or any position. You specifically argued against DE even being a need at all, which is why you looked so completely delusional. A backup to Hardy was all this team needed at DE? Really? There were opportunities to address DE that Hurney passed on, just as he passed on addressing DT & CB. All three lapses have hurt tremendously. I don't know why you decided that DE is fine, but sticking to that story because you can never admit a mistake is annoying. It's a need, so deal with it.

Meanwhile the Panthers are starting a 6th round pick at DE, a guy who you said was terrible against the run and obviously hasn't done much against the pass either (at least until the Chicago game). Greg Hardy doesn't mean the team is fine at DE any more than Dwan Edwards means the team is fine at DT. I like Hardy, but as a backup LDE and situational pass rusher at DT. The team desperately needs a player at RDE who can provide fairly consistent pass rush.

Again, the results this season have clearly shown the difference between the defense with a pass rush (Chicago & the first 50 minutes against Atlanta), and without (2, 1, 2, 2, and 0 sacks in the other games). It's the most pressing concern on defense. I would support picking Lotulelei if he's there for Carolina's first round pick because he could provide consistent pass rush at DT, so it's not like I'm saying they should take a DE no matter what, but only a fool would argue that DE isn't a major need. It clearly is.

True, I shouldn't have said that all 3-4 noses are two gap. Almost all are, but some will line up in the 1 as opposed to the 0. However, it's still an enormous waste to put someone like Lotulelei or Hankins there. It's fine if the team doesn't want to go in that direction, but it's a choice they would have to make before the draft since doing so would make a 3-4 look inadvisable. Meanwhile I find it funny that as of last year you said exactly what I've been saying all along about Hardy being the only true fit for a 3-4:

 

If I were to rank the Panther's needs on defense, based on what I've witnessed thus far, it would go something like this:

1. CB
2. DE/pass rushing OLB (I dig how Fox uses Von Miller in his 4-3)
3. Safety
4. DT


I think Collin is correct that the stats don't show the full story. Sunday against the Bears during the first half was wonderful to watch, and it would be great to see that every Sunday. But it's certainly the exception, not the rule.

My argument for CB first is that we have 2 younger, at least competent players at both spots, even if neither is dominant. At CB, we have Gamble, who is getting older, and is definitely still good, and absolute shite past that. Norman would be 4th at best on most depth charts. Munnerlyn would not make most rosters. Also, have we lost sight of the fact that the Panthers give up the highest completion percentage in the NFL? McDermott should be lauded for putting together a competitive group with the dogshit personnel he has to work with.

 

The lack big plays in critical situations suggests that we don't have anything close to elite talent. The sacks have come in bunches, which is nice, but the playoff teams make those plays when it matters. We don't.


If I'm the new GM, I'm using the next two or three drafts to build this team front-to-back. I want a reservior of young, explosive talent on the offensive and defensive lines. If an excellent corner and/or safety is available, take him. Otherwise I'm using free agency to find bargain players who will fit within our system.

 

That's fair. Cornerback absolutely needs to be addressed, but the way I view it is that at corner you really need quality depth. One impact guy can be ignored by the opposing offense, and while taking away one receiver does affect their gameplan, they can still attack any other weak links in the secondary. So rather than focusing on adding one major guy at corner, I'd like to see the team add several solid ones. Meanwhile you usually don't get impact at DE with multiple guys, you kind of need one you can count on. Then a dominant DT who can stop the run and rush the passer is the rarest and most valuable thing on defense, which is why I would love to get Lotulelei. I'm not crazy about any of the DEs in the upcoming draft, so that might be addressed in free agency if the team hadn't already used its cap space.