Drafting DL

I do not get the animosity towards Gross. He has been a solid player for us who has almost never been hurt. He is consistent and versatile, which has saved us a couple of times when injury hit us hard. He may not be an elite tackle but he is a good tackle and has started since day one. If you look at the history of our first round picks over the years he is definately near the top. Other than Peppers I can not think of a guy who has been clearly better than Gross.

 

I'd say he's underperformed compared to what you'd expect out of a tackle that high. He still gives up pressure simply by being bullrushed back to the QB. Being in uniform and being out there's great, but it's closer to the minimum than the exceptional. It's fine to have guys who are "solid"...that's what the second and third rounds are for.

 

Agree 100% with magnus here. Gross has been solid, but not exceptional. You expect high first round picks to be more than "solid." Add to this the fact that Gross doesn't seem to have the drive to be the best he can be. If he actually took his job seriously and pushed himself to report in the best shape possible, and had the drive and determination (mean streak) to be an elite tackle, he might live up to the hype. But right now, he plays like a second or third round pick in my opinion.

 

which is fine, till he expects to be paid like the near-franchise player that he, his agent, and JR believe him to be.

 

It's not so much that I dig Carriker or Willis for that matter. I believe the team should build from the front first. I also think a strong MLB is necessary for a great defense.

I'm also a realist as to what will be available at our pick.

I don't care how the DE gets to a QB as long as he does.

 

We've built the front (Peppers, Jenkins, Gross, Wharton and FA aquisitions/losses), we built the next tier (Morgan, Davis, Foster, Williams, Hoover and FA), we built deep (Gamble, Marshall, Smith)...point is the NFL doesn't allow you to build for the long haul. You build what you can with what you can afford.

 

If Gross expects to be paid like an elite tackle then I would not do it. For the time being though he has performed pretty well. If you get the level of play you hope for from a second round pick from a guy picked in the first round that is a whole lot better than getting a guy who washes out. I still stand by my comment that Gross has done more for us than any of our other first round picks besides Peppers.

Think about this, in 2003 and 2005 when we had a solid left tackle and were able to play Gross at RT we had very good seasons and playoff success. in 2004 and 2006 when we were forced to shift Gross to LT and play a scrub at RT then we struggled all year and missed the playoffs.

 

"from the front first" isn't out of bounds. You do seem to have something for both Carriker and Willis, though, and for the thought about strengthening a strength, I've not seen you further any opinion on what you think we should do at our single largest hole, where we need not one but two difference makers.

Love the word and the amount of posturing it takes to use it. There's nothing unrealistic in believing that the other players that I believe are better, will be there. I don't know how I've stated anything unrealistic, but sure, I'd like to see that thought defended.

Which is fine, but at RDE Carriker will not be able to beat a guy outside and any one dimensional pass rusher will get shut down easily. Moss and Carriker aren't of the same level that Adams/Anderson are, and I don't want either at 14.
Meanwhile, in 2, you could easily get a Charles Johnson if you're looking for an athletic base end, or any number of guys to fill the classic speed rusher role most of us want opposite Peppers. In Rucker, we have a guy who can play the at-home, technique end. Ball's a backup of that ability. Loading on with yet another guy who's not explosive? I'm just not into that. We've had enough of underwhelming first day guys who were 'safe'.

 

Part of the argument of getting Gross was that "he can play left tackle". So part of the excuse there is that when Gross has had to do so, we've been crappier. That's not a positive, is it? He's not an elite RT, he's not elite at any facet, he's just there. He's solid. I don't think we'd have expected that "solid" would get it back when people were talking about how he'd "anchor the line for the next fifteen years."

He's better than a bust, yes. We know that. That means he's meeting minimum requirements. He doesn't give up a ton of sacks, but he gets walked back to Jake regularly. He's not strong because he simply doesn't like to be in the gym. He's not elite because he's inconsistent effort. He's not what he could be and that's not too much to ask of any guy we drop a top ten pick on.

 

I think you overestimate what we can expect to get from a top ten pick. Look at the other guys who went in the top ten that year, most of them are not dominant.

Gross has not been as good as I hope he would be but he has not been awful either. He does struggle at times with strong pass rushers but for the most part he controls his man and does not give up sacks. We all wanted him to be an elite LT but what he turned out to be is a good right tackle who can also play adequate LT. Since we have needed him to play LT two of the four years he has been here that is not too bad.

He has done a lot more than Leonard Davis who just got a huge pay day....