Wide Receivers we could go after

Better technical coaching would help any quarterback.

Period.

Look at how Hasselbeck has evolved under Holmgren. You put Hasselbeck under, say, McCoy.....yeeeessshh.

 

No, he wasn't. As I keep repeating (despite you continuously ignoring it), Jake had absolutely no reason to leave the pocket on the second INT. Both blitzers were completely stoned at the line of scrimmage and the pocket was picture-perfect. In fact, Sam Rosen says "Delhomme has time" just as Jake is hurling the ball away.

Actually he doesn't do that on either INT. I have the second one freeze-framed right now and Jake is standing midway between the hashes after releasing the ball, which is somewhat between where Wahle and Mitchell are further upfield.

Then on the first INT, Jake initially slides to his right because Wahle is pushing Briggs past him on the left. Gross and Reyes then wash their men to Jake's right, so he steps back to the left but certainly not outside his LT block. Wharton is still to Jake's left when Delhomme releases the ball, although he's lost Alex Brown at that point. Meanwhile Jake is more or less right behind Mitchell (who is blocking Urlacher) when he throws it, although that's probably a step to the left of where they snapped the ball.

You really need to pull out the game tape and watch these plays again because it's clear that you're not remembering them anything close to correctly.

And as I keep pointing out, Jake did plant and did step into his throw on the first Chicago INT. Please watch it again.

On the first one it was actually a good move because Wahle did have to push Briggs by Jake's left, then he reacted to Gross' and Reyes' blocks as well. But on the second one it was a horrible decision because there was absolutely no one around him. He could have stepped up into the pocket and waited probably another 3-4 seconds since absolutely none of the defenders were getting away from their blockers.

Sure it was. Vasher was underneath him and there was safety help over the top as well. And that's for Proehl, not even Smitty.

Huh? He does it all the time, that's what people are complaining about. What Jake Delhomme are you talking about?

 

He might be worth a look. I know he has the baggage and all but if we sign him to a cheap one year deal then how bad can it hurt us if he flops?

 

>>You really need to pull out the game tape and watch these plays again because it's clear that you're not remembering them anything close to correctly.

I was looking at the tape last night when writing this. Don't try that. I picked this game specifically because it was still queued.
It's obvious he moves left both times.

Vasher was underneath, but in zone; he wasn't close enough to play the ball as it was intended to go on the first pass. The tape clearly shows this from the second angle, Proehl was open enough to target.


>>this being something he doesn't do often

I dunno what you decided I was talking about, but I was talking about him being rushed out of the pocket to the left.

 

:banginghe'

 

He does slide to the left, not much.

http://www.panthers.com/gameday/postGameArchive.jsp?idGame=21795


Jake was under considerable pressure on the first one, and did get hit as he released. On the second one, he slid slightly to the left, but was under no pressure at all.

 

Obviously you weren't looking closely enough. You said, "He stepped a couple yards, each time, to the left of his OT block." He isn't anywhere close to being to the left of his OT block, much less a couple of yards beyond it. On both INTs he is still inside of where the LG was lined up when he releases the ball.

Yes he was in zone, but he was definitely close enough to make a play on the ball even if it hadn't been horribly underthrown. Maybe if Proehl was running a corner route then Vasher couldn't have gotten back, but it was an out and Vasher was well within range of Proehl's final position. The fact that Vasher didn't even have to back up for the underthrow shows that he was already in position to cut off anything but a perfect throw. He just had to move a little to his left. Then as mentioned, the second INT featured Vasher step for step with Proehl, and with Chris Harris over the top.

Oh, and did you notice on the second angle that you can see Jake step into that throw?

He didn't get outside the tackle on either INT. Please watch it again. If not, I'll gladly post screenshots proving you wrong. In fact, let me go ahead and upload some.

First INT
Second INT

 

he's outside tackle on the first INT, as I said. He's further inside than I'd remembered on the second, sure.

>>Vasher was well within range of Proehl's final position

I disagree. Your own point that "he didn't have to move to pick the ball", but Proehl came back toward the ball even though it was an out, shows Proehl had separation. It was a correct throw, just a poor one because he didn't set.

IRRc, on the second pick, the corner endzone shot shows the leg come around after the throw, not during it. But I might be remembering the first one, since I don't have it on me right now. No, he doesn't look properly planted, nor squared up, to throw in that shot.

Either way, get upset about it.

 

What are you talking about? He's standing just inside the right hash, exactly where Jeff Mitchell is blocking Urlacher. How is that outside the tackle? Wharton is at least another step to Jake's left, and that's after taking Brown around Jake and then trying to move back inside to cut him off.

Here's another screenshot to prove my point:
The snap is made with Mitchell just inside the right hash. And where is Jake's throw made? That's right, just inside the right hash.

I suppose that's as close to "I was wrong" as I'll ever get out of you.

Proehl did have separation, but again, it wasn't a vertical route. Proehl was moving out, not further upfield. That means Jake can't float the ball over Vasher, he has to throw it on a relative line. And as noted, Vasher didn't even have to back up for the underthrown ball, while he certainly could have done so in time to at least break up the pass if Delhomme had thrown it perfectly. He didn't because he panicked.

Yes, he did set. You just want to pretend that he didn't because you don't want to admit that you're wrong about footwork being the cause of both INTs. Take a look at this picture which proves that Jake did set and did step into the throw on the first INT. Contrast that with the second INT when Jake did not set.

If you had someone who obviously wasn't an idiot, but was behaving like a complete idiot because that person was completely incapable of admitting that they're wrong even though you have visual evidence that they are wrong, wouldn't you be a little ticked? Geez. I mean I have pictures, for Christ's sake. How much evidence do you require before you actually admit that you're wrong about something?

 

and we have meltdown.

We see things differently. I made concessions on things I saw as wrong. Since the discussion is more important than you needing to be proven as correct based on preconceived notions, yes, I'm going to talk about what I'm seeing, not spending time trying to make concessions to you being angry about a freaking football discussion.

FWIW, no, he doesn't look to be on the right hash at the throw. He does look to have cleared Wharton by a step or so. Since TV tape shows the corner-endzone angle, it'd make more sense to cap that, but you'll have to stay angry till I can get to my tape to have to apologize for seeing things differently than you, and therefore risk getting called an idiot.


That's awesome. :bananalam


Anyway, at least you agree with me that the 2nd INT was not with his feet set.