Anybody worried that the band wagon might flip over?

so i can conclude that you are saying that Trog is not a very good DC?

... and sorry about the double post.


Ranking of 32 teams for Total D for Jax:

2001 18
2002 19
2003 13 Del Rio arrives
2004 8
2005 2

Ranking of 32 teams for Total D for CAR:

2001 32
2002 2 Del Rio arrives
2003 8 Del Rio leaves
2004 20
2005 11

maybe Jack just went out and got him a good DC when he went to Jax? got himself better players than what Car has?

 

It's all about getting on a roll. We did it last year, but it was a little too late. Part of that was because the intense schedule at the beginning of the year. If we can perform well in these next three games, we should get some confidence and be able to roll through the season smoothly. If we don't win at least 2 of the next three, we will be calculating who has to lose, etc. to see if we can get in the postseason if we're lucky.

Bottom line is, the schedule is very easy this year, and if we can't get in the playoffs, then we don't deserve it.

 

i pity anyone that sits around worried about bandwagons

 

I'm guessing from your level of speech that you were confined in a cage until age 13, correct? Note yet again that I never said the most talented team wins. I said that the team who plays best, wins. The Patriots execute tremendously well, and one of the things the New England coaching staff does best is to identify players who have always executed well. They didn't magically transform screwups into champions, they assembled an entire roster of guys who just don't make many mistakes and never have. Moreover, don't believe everything you hear from the media. New England has an abundance of talent, although injuries are dropping that count by the day.


HeadAche:
The first thing you need to do is decide who gets credit for a defense's performance. When Del Rio was DC, you wanted to give him the credit more than Fox. Now that Del Rio is a head coach, you want to give him the credit more than Mike Smith (Jacksonville's defensive coordinator). As for why I don't think Del Rio is a good DC, can you tell me of anything he's ever done? Seriously, what is his scheme? Where does he excel? Who has he ever taught, and what did he teach them? The only thing I've ever noticed Del Rio to do is to jump around a lot, and to jump ship at the first opportunity for advancement. Jacksonville has a good defense primarily because they have good defensive players.

And yes, I don't think Trgovac is anything special as a defensive coordinator. I never said otherwise, I just get tired of people such as yourself blaming him for everything under the sun. I mean seriously, what is the difference between you and dukey? Honestly, what is the difference between you two?

 

Next time I hop in a gamechat, Ill have to let the fellas know. They might shit a brick when they find out theyre not actual people!

As for your beef, I dont care about your beef.

 

Lol, ditto.

 

Its an argument that will probably never fully be able to be proven one way or the other. Del Rio was a LBs coach before he came on with us to become our DC, so he didnt really have time to be hailed as a great defensive mind. He was a guy looked at as a young and promising defensive mind, who worked under other great defensive minds. He was with us for one year as DC, and the defense was obviously better than its ever been here, maybe with the exception of Fangio and Capers' 96 unit. But then he was made into a HC.

Either way, I have to say I dont think Mora Jr. is a sham either. As much as I do think hes a piece of shit.

 

In taking over the Jaguars in 2003, Del Rio was the architect of a defense that improved to sixth overall in the NFL, and second against the run. He had inherited a team that had not been in the top 10 in total defense since 1999, ranking 20th in 2002. The defense allowed only one 100-yard rusher in 2003, while the offense allowed just 28 sacks, the fewest in team history, and Fred Taylor rushed for a team-record 1,572 yards with Byron Leftwich starting 13 games as a rookie. The Jaguars’ 5-11 record included six losses by seven points or less.

The vast improvement in defense was no coincidence since Del Rio was only one year removed from taking the Carolina Panthers defense from 31st in the league to second overall, as defensive coordinator of the Panthers in 2002. Coming off a 1-15 season, the Panthers defense allowed only 290.4 yards per game, led the NFL in fewest rushing yards per attempt, and ranked second in fewest yards per play, third down efficiency, and sacks (52). The Panthers allowed the fourth-fewest points in the league, did not allow a 300-yard passer, and didn't yield a 100-yard rusher until the season finale.

From 1999 to 2001, Del Rio served as linebackers coach for the Baltimore Ravens, helping the team win Super Bowl XXXV over the New York Giants. For those three years, in which the Ravens finished second in total defense three times, Del Rio coached the Ravens’ talented linebacker corps which featured Peter Boulware, Jamie Sharper and Ray Lewis, the NFL's Defensive Player of the Year in 2000 and the MVP of Super Bowl XXXV. During the Ravens’ Super Bowl championship season in 2000, the defense set the NFL 16-game record by allowing only 165 points and recording four shutouts, one shy of the post-1970 record. The group also led the NFL with 49 forced turnovers. The defense continued its domination in the playoffs, allowing just one touchdown in four games.

 

Mike Smith is, in fact, a good DC. And I gotta give credit to JDR for having landed Brian Van Gorder as a LBs coach. It makes up for hiring the one Carolina guy he could get, Al Reynolds, to be one of his critical position coaches - DBs. I like Al, and I'm glad he got a job doing more than he did here (it also helped us, because we snapped up Flajole, who replaced Sam).

JDR does deserve some credit for his LBs in Baltimore, though he's neither an innovator nor a brilliant tactician. It's fucking laughable to call him "the architect" of any defense. He runs cover two. He runs C2 because coaches he came up behind, ran C2 and it was the big trend at the time.

What Smith runs? That's harder to say. Hopefully, they mix it up more, but I haven't watched them enough to say "they run this or that". And it's not relevant to the discussion.

Granted, him having a hearty but erratic passer in Leftwich and having had a coach of the enormous ineptitude of Bill Musgrave (who, in the WCO, was great as a lieutenant, horrid as a general - the guy should not be in charge of playcalling) doesn't help his situation, but he chose both those guys. I don't think he's a better than average head coach, and as of now, I'd say Fox is much better. The only real issue with Fox seems to be the bipolar nature of his teams, where they seem to live and die by emotional surges that could be caused by things as simple as the players' ability to see changes needed that Fox and Co. are too stubborn to make until it's too obvious.

 

so you tell me who gets the credit when a D dramatically improves in the first year year after a change in coaches. is it the HC or DC? one way or the other Del Rio gets credit no? it's not like he's gone anywhere and the D has become worse. meanwhile, here in Carolina with 3 years to build on what was the #2 D when Jack left despite one of the worst tandems of CBs to ever line up in the the NFL ...

btw, i really don't care to debate bygones. to sum up your argument: Trog is evey bit as good as Del Rio, who in you opinion is crap as a s DC and HC despite the record. so your opinion of Trog seems to be that he is crap too.

A crack of light? Three questions:

So what are people such as yourself (hopefully that is a small group of one) willing to hold Trog accountable for?

If things don't change for the better from where they are now, would you demote/fire Trog?

If not, how much worse would things have to get before you would consider making a change at DC (since you seem to be on board that Fox is doing a good job)?