Trades you'd like to see 2013

If I had money I would bet a large pile that Gross goes nowhere. Just will not happen.

edit: Beason, Gamble, either one of Double Trouble, get what you can for them. Picks are cool. Any picks. I know it won't be easy due to the money they're owed.

 

Won't happen. Teams will wait for them to be cut. Fact is, we don't have very many players teams would trade for. Cam, Hardy, Keuchly, come to mind. Young players trending upward still on their rookie deals.

 

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I would take any trade for Gamble just to get him off the team. He's over paid & a liability.

Hate to see Beason get traded off, he's said he wants to stay... I assume that means playing outside or as a back up. Rivera has love for LB's

Would love to see the Panthers trade down in the draft and get more picks. We need depth all over the place. I'm hoping Rivera is better at player evaluation than he is at in game decisions, and he & Beane are a lot better at putting the right value on those picks.

We're really not that bad as in we have some playmakers, we just need more solid play around those guys.

 

Unless Beason wants vet minimum, he needs to get cut. Simple as that. We have too much money tied up there, and bigger needs elsewhere.

 

he's worth more than vet min, he's not worth his current contract, but he has more value than minimum

 

He's been great for the team while he's been here, they would never insult him by suggesting vet minimum. At least I hope they wouldn't.

 

I agree he's worth more than that. My point is that we should not tie up salary cap dollars equivalent to whatever he's worth because we don't have huge needs there. We have an above average starting corps, plus adequate depth. Beason would be a luxury that we can't afford.

For example, let's suppose he's worth $4 million per season, plus whatever bonus he agrees to. I'd much rather cut him loose, and apply that cash to the offensive line or corner or wide receiver.

 

still I think we need to keep the depth at LB... he can take a pay cut, I'm sure that's what he meant when he said he wanted to stay

Gamble's money can go towards Corner, I think we're good at WR considering other needs, especially if Gettis can come back

 

i dont think we're good at WR, but its definitely not the most important need. Which sucks, of course, because we should be better off at offensive line that we currently are. Letting Schwartz, Wharton, and Bernadeau walk in the hope that Hangartner would be above average two years in a row was misguided.

I detailed in another thread how bad Hurney was at picking WR's & TE's: 17 draft picks were used to produce two legitimate starters (Olsen & LaFell). In the same way, let's take a look at the OLine. Hurney drafted 16 offensive lineman over the course of his career: two 1st rounders, three 2nds, two 3rds, two 5ths, two 6ths, & five 7ths. He also prided himself on making the OLine a strength of the team.


In descending order of draft position...

Busts: Jeff Otah (1st), Bruce Nelson (2nd), Evan Mathis (3rd), Duke Robinson (5th), Joe Berger (6th), Peter Campion (7th), Will Montgomery (7th)

Pushes: Zachary Williams (6th), Geoff Schwartz (7th), Mackenzie Bernadeau (7th), Lee Ziemba (7th)

Hits: Jordan Gross (1st), Ryan Kalil (2nd), Amini Silatolu (2nd), Travelle Wharton (3rd), Geoff Hangartner (5th)


Gross & Kalil have obviously been worth every penny, and were the most obvious 'hits'. Silatolu needs another 2-3 years of similar growth & production before he's firmly in this category, but I see no reason to not include him there now. Wharton gave us a number of very good years at the LG spot, and even some solid OT play at times. Hangartner has made a pretty decent impact for a 5th rounder, plus he gets brownie points for coming back once he figured out the grass isnt always greener.

The 'push' category is intended for those backups that were serviceable in their time here, even providing starter-quality play when needed. The 'busts' were those that fell short of their draft-pick dependent expectations.



What lessons are to be learned from all this?

Well, for one, the medical evaluations of offensive lineman are as important as the scouting evaluations, if not moreso. Nelson's body couldnt handle the banging...he put on a bunch of weight in college, but none of it helped him in the pros. Otah had major medical red flags iirc...we got the short end of the stick on that one, which would have been tolerable under normal circumstances, but not when you forfeit next year's 1st to move up to get him.

Secondly, scheme change can force massive personnel change on the OLine. That's probably the biggest reason why Schwartz was let go (Bernadeau to a lesser extent). It would be best to avoid another scheme change. I, for one, would like to see the offense stay even if the coaches do not.

Thirdly, correctly managing the cap is vital. Wharton was obviously a cap casualty. I know I tried to give Hurney the benefit of the doubt on the contracts he signed, but its obvious now that his thinking became desperately focused on short term solutions at the expense of the team's long term financial health. He front loaded a lot of the extensions he made in an effort to allow for future flexibility, but that certainly wont be the case this year.

Last but not least, dominate the process of personnel evaluation & acquisition. This includes (but not limited to): the college draft, the supplemental draft, free agency, the waiver wire, coaching/scouting/executive/management talent, etc... The easiest way to separate from the pack is to minimize the # of busts, plain and simple.

I know it must be tricky to find the right balance between (i) the opinions of the scouting department, (ii) the opinions of the coaching staff, & (iii) the opinion of the GM (I'm assuming for now that the opinions of JR and DM dont influence too much of the draft process). To me, finding this balance should be the organizations #1 goal in regards to reaching and sustaining success as a franchise.



But, then again, it should also be obvious that the Panthers have certain limitations and must do better than average in order to over come them:

(1) a less than ideal fan base. Let's face facts here folks, the Carolinas are not the best place to find rabid football fans, and this directly translates to gameday atmostphere. This is a huge problem for UNC, Duke, Wake, but not so much for NC State, South Carolina, & Clempson. The pitiful history of South Carolina in football does contribute to the negativity of the fan base, as well, I think. There are some NC born football fanatics, but they are not in the majority. This goes back to many factors: the underwhelming high school and middle school football leagues - compared to the best HS football in Florida & Texas, NC (and to a lesser extent SC) are more like single A ball, which is mostly due to the fact that NC doesnt allow for spring football where many other states do. The end result is a general lack of passion for & knowledge of the game of football. Other reasons include (i) the region's historical affection for college bball, (ii) the dilution of the state's talent pool by local soccer, baseball, & lacrosse leagues, (iii) the prominence of the ACC within NC & its less than ideal football reputation, which seems to be etched in stone and unchangeable.

(2) a less than ideal city. Charlotte is right for some people like Smitty and Nakamura who want to put down roots in a place with good education and good weather. For many others, however, Charlotte is on the rural end of the spectrum of NFL cities. Kris Jenkins couldnt stand Charlotte, probably because he grew in the more urban DC area. Peppers couldnt wait to get out of this fishbowl. God only knows how many free agents never considered us due simply to the queen city. Recall how Kobe refused to play for the Hornets, and we ended up with Vlade in a fire sale.

(3) a peculiar owner. JR has many redeeming qualities such as being a former player, having unbounded patience and loyalty for certain players that make it into his inner circle, and having a privately funded stadium. His less than redeeming qualities do factor in, though, such as the condescending way he treated Peyton as well as the overall attack dog mentality he maintained throughout the CBA negotiations, the general lack of a succession plan given his less than ideal future life expectancy, and his pattern of nepotism/cronysim.