2012 free agency thread

DE has two nice role players. It needs a second starter. So does CB, but the pickings aren't nearly as attractive as the ones Hurney turned down last off-season.

 

Carl Nicks G saints-our o line could use this guy

Hurney just anally fisted himself to keep Johnson so I don't think we will be picking up a starter in FA.

 

Well you did push for drafting a G early in the first round so we could avoid our biggest weakness, so it's no surprise you'd be as dumb as to suggest signing perhaps the most expensive G FA in the past several years, one of the best Gs in the NFL here when we're limited enough with money as it is.

How about no. I see you're astute enough to change your post. Good boy.

Let's just be glad he's probably leaving New Orleans.

 

well, I disagree, and in whether starting left end is the most critical thing we're missing. To me, getting better against the run at end would be nice, because we are weak there thanks to Hardy, but that's not a blue chip need.

 

I don't know why you keep acting like Hardy is good at rushing the passer just because he got some hurries. Thomas Keiser was actually better than Hardy on a per game basis, and I don't see anyone suggesting that he's an adequate starter. The need for a second legitimate starting DE is pretty huge. I think you're just resistant to the idea because you decided you don't want Coples. It's fine if you don't, but that doesn't make DE any less of a need.

One thing about Hardy I will say is that he was surprisingly good at deflecting passes. He finished just behind Gamble for the team lead in passes defensed

 

Hardy had as many hurries as Johnson. Johnson was well above average against the urn, Hardy was a failure against the run. Keiser was better against the run, but not so much that I don't still worry about getting a good player there. I'm not saying that I believe Hardy is a sure-fire starter, but he's good enough on pass downs, and poor on run downs (biggest disparity we have on the team, individually), so either he's wearing down based on more snaps (and you get him help), or he's never going to be a good run-downs player so you find one to work around him. It's basic, really.

I don't want Coples, or Mario Williams for the cost, but I'm not against a player there. I just don't find it our largest need, where we have one pretty fucking decent player and two more I can live with. At tackle, I'm not tied to anything we have. Nothing showed it could be good and healthy.

Plus, end pressure is always nice, but we're a blitzing team. Stopping the run, and setting the edge/keeping contain, is critical to that, and Hardy isn't good at it. Doing those little things well could make him a better player, and no reason he can't be, but we can't wait around for it, either. Supplanting him with a Parker, who can take the obvious run snaps and can still add some pressure, at a decent cost allows us to still improve our team overall in places I find a greater need.

 

I know you've said that, but I'd like to see some stats since it doesn't square with what I remember about the games. I guess neither player was really that good at rushing the passer, CJ was just better about actually getting there when he had chances. As noted, it seemed like Keiser was significantly better at rushing the passer than Hardy. 4 sacks is not "good enough."

I don't think we watched the same team. I don't remember the Panthers bringing more than four guys on most plays, and even when they did bring someone else it was usually just a fifth. In any case, you acknowledging that Hardy is terrible against the run and then the fact that he only had four sacks means that DE is a pretty huge need. It's weird that you want to pretend that DE is fine, but then campaign for Upshaw. Again, I think it's pretty obvious that you minimize the importance of adding another DE because you don't like the idea of Coples.


PP:
Reading comprehension evidently isn't your strong suit. Magnus said that Hardy was weak against the run.

 

QB pressures, knockdowns, sacks, snaps
Johnson 32 - 6 - 10 - 434 (PFF credits him for two separate half sack situations as a full)
Hardy 33 - 8 - 4 - 501 snaps
Applewhite 14 - 5 - 2 - 198 snaps
McClain 9 - 2 - 1 298 snaps
and since he was brought up,
Keiser - 3 - 1 - 4 sacks, 122 snaps. Keiser, you figure, would be better in the other categories with the same number of sacks as Hardy, and more than most guys on this team, but he rated much higher against the run.

What we ran wasn't what we wanted to run, IMO, and there was a lot more man in there than I ever expected. But, both Rivera and McDermott were blitz happy coordinators. Rivera didn't send more than 4 that often, but it was with zone blitz backing. And yes, we've made it clear we want to be aggressive. Ron Rivera is not running the cover 2 here, and you know that. We don't just want the same four guys rushing every down, and you know that.

see, this is the type of shit you'd go crazy if someone else said, as I have detailed that we can use more at end pretty much every time that you have brought up DE as the most critical need. This is where you'd call me girl names and all that nonsense you do when you want to personalize things. So, leave it out.

 

Keiser only had 3 hurries? Jesus. I would have sworn he had a lot more than that.

I agree with you that I expected more blitzing, but that doesn't change the fact that the Panthers were not a blitzing defense in 2011.

You said that Hardy was "good enough" and that DE wasn't a big need. I don't see how I'm misrepresenting your position at all. Clearly you do think DE is fine, which doesn't mean that you think it can't be upgraded, just that you don't see it as any kind of real priority. I couldn't disagree with you more about that. DT & CB are definite concerns for me as well, but DE is another huge one.