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Fox Not To Blame?

Discussion in 'Carolina Panthers' started by chaz, Oct 18, 2010.

  1. chaz

    chaz Full Access Member

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    The latest in rant/fan-stroking from Steve Reed:

    http://www.carolinagrowl.com/index....panthers-personnel-decisions&catid=1:articles

    Lots of what Reed writes here is true. JR went young and cheap to set the table for the new CBA negotiations and to prepare financially for a lockout season. It's gotten very little press, but the majority of the franchise's office and support personnel will not lose their jobs during the lockout - mainly due to the lack of spending on other labor. That should not be overlooked.

    The on-field product has suffered. How can it not with so much youth at the skill positions? But I'm not buying Reed's apology for John Fox. To say that Fox is not responsible for the pitiful performances of this team is a load of crap. Ok, fine, Fox doesn't like youth, prefers veterans. So? Does that mean Fox CAN'T coach youth? Is he above such things?

    And I would argue that the cupboard wasn't bare this offseason. The Panthers have plenty of talent, and experience. Youth happened because Dwayne Jarrett failed, and Smitty was hurt, and Otah had surgery in August, and Matt Moore was learning the hard way to be a real starting QB and got a concussion. Youth happened. Make it work.

    Reed seems to think that JR threw in the towel this season. That may indeed prove out. But it's my opinion that John Fox was the one who threw in the towel - the day after Richardson decided to hang him out as a lame duck. Everything since then has been, well, lame, with resigned body language, shrugs and evasion.

    John Fox should take his own advice. In years past, when a season had gone past the point of making the playoffs, Fox told his players that every moment of tape is a part of their resume. The head coach should heed that advice. People are watching.
     
  2. Abusive

    Abusive Fuck yo blanket

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    I understand the point Reed is making, and the fact that Richardson is one of the leading Team Owners in terms of the ongoing CBA battle makes sense to the point of not spending money.

    That said, Bob Kraft would be another owner that is side-by-side with Richardson. As an educated fan knows, they're young. In fact, they're very young (at LB, DB, WR, TE). But, they have a very good quarterback that has been blessed with two consecutive seasons of good health. They do have two veterans at WR (Branch and Welker), and overall--they're coached better.

    I don't envy the football position Fox is in right now, but I also recognize he is being paid $6 MIL in 2010. That's $1.2 MIL per loss thus far.

    Richardson may be making a subtle point for the purpose of the CBA, but I have said this from day one: he understands that with an inevitable coaching change will come a potential overhaul in:

    1. Coaching staff
    2. Personnel

    So, as the dream goes for many, let's say JR does indeed hire Cowher--which I don't believe is completely dead at this point. Cowher would need the budget to:

    1. Bring in a core of coaches that are available that share his philosophy and vision.

    2. Bring in a core of players that fit his schematics.

    Even if it's a young assistant, as most proclaim it will be, that new coach will be making a wish-list to Hurney of needs that will turn this team into a contender again.

    Brian Schottenheimer, for instance, will not settle for 89 and "the rest". He will want to pursue Vincent Jackson, or another proven #1 or #2 veteran. That's the only reason his offense clicks in NY right now. Without the WR's and TE's they employ, Sanchez would be putting up horrid numbers, and there would be little-to-no running game in NY.

    JR is being patient, and wants to set 2011 up for success. If Fox truly wants to distance himself from this team (and I don't think that's the case, at all), then he could easily pull a Butch Davis and quit. Though, that would look much worse than fighting through it and winning some games.

    This week is very telling. San Fran has a potent pass rush, and whomever starts at QB, it will be vital that this bye week has provided either/both QB's and the new WR's the proper avenue to get things synced-up and develop more rhythm.

    Just observing some games from yesterday, it's amazing how easy moving the ball can be, if you just take your yards in small bites--as a QB. Lot of 4-6 yard completions to the TE. Lot of swing passes to the HB. Lot of quick slants for 10-12 yards. Just elementary-level concepts.

    We cannot afford, with SFO's personnel, to simply line-up in 2TE, 2RB formations, with the same bullshit motion from a TE, and run a power play, or lead play. 3W, or 2W and a flexed TE on the field, with a single back look, would open up some lanes. Shit, it's not like we have a real fullback, anyway.

    If you see the exact same type of offensive output this Sunday that you have for 5 weeks prior, then you will know that this could be a winless season. And, from there, no matter how much Fox wants to point the finger at management, it's his product, and false starts by Jordan Gross, or dropped INT's by Chris Gamble would fall less on the shoulders of the front office, and more on the shoulders of the men coaching the players.
     
  3. Abusive

    Abusive Fuck yo blanket

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    [​IMG]
     
  4. y2b

    y2b King of QC

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    Fox is a great football coach... this season will not tarnish him whatsoever, in league circles... the media might paint a different picture, but he is one of the most well respected coaches in football by his peers.

    I have told you guys this before. The Panthers aren't spending because they don't have it to spend...
     
  5. Abusive

    Abusive Fuck yo blanket

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    As a football coach, you are what your record is. So, slot John Fox in whatever category he belongs from that perspective.

    Yes, on a personal level, he is a pimp--and a very wise salesman. He's not a bullshitter, and doesn't sound like a dickhead--he makes a ton of friends, and doesn't talk shit in the pressers. This allows him to be universally respected within NFL circles, which is the only one that really matters.

    I've loved having Fox here. My only criticism would be this: he is, more than any coach I have ever seen, too slow to adjust. In game, in season, etc. He strayed from Stephen Davis too late. He strayed from Foster too late. He strayed from Delhomme too late. He has always made decisions about a few weeks later than wiser, more instinctual coaches would have.

    He's above average, and will probably do an above average job in his next stop. But, as a fan, I'm over it. The sentiment used to be "well, if you're going to fire him, you'd damn well better have a better option waiting in the wings."

    We're 0-5, and we are an even 27-27 since opening day, 2007.

    Again--what's the excuse for vets fucking up their assignments, jumping offsides, dropping interceptions and blowing coverages? Is that something Fox wants to "subtly" tie into the bulk of youth that has been asked to become instant starters in the NFL? To me, it's a bi-product of poor coaching--which is always the foundation. I recall, perhaps after week one, Fox "changing things up", and deciding to let the players practice in shorts that week to keep them loose and healthy. Felt that he over-cooked them in August. That didn't help--the team played their best football, offensively, in the first half of that week one game.

    The rookies are tough, but Fox is so goddamned spoiled to having teams stacked with 30-somethings, he finally had to learn how to coach a team with young players in key spots. And he's just not that fucking good at it.

    Again, he's being paid $6mil this season. I don't know where that puts him amongst coaches who have run a .500 record since opening day, 2007, but I would argue that it's probably near the top of that list. Had he taken his team to the playoffs each year during that span, then you make the argument that he is "elite". But, now, he just sounds like a bitter fuck who's looking to--very subtly--push off the responsibility of 2010 on the front office. Fair enough, but you've had chances this season to win games, and you've been part of the roadblock to those wins personally. Same could be said about 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009.

    Quit your bitching, get better with what you have, win some fucking games, and move on.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2010
  6. Black&Blue

    Black&Blue NKW

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    I think Fox is one of the biggest head coaching enigmas ever.

    It was Fox who came in here and made cutthroat decisions. Weinke was clearly not an NFL QB, Fox immediately noticed this, and replaced him with Peete. And Peete was clearly not going to take us to the playoffs, and it only took one bad half for Fox to replace him with Jake.

    His biggest downfall after that was loyalty. We kept a lot guys around from the glory days who clearly had no business playing anymore. That gradually set us back to where we were before Fox got here. He's a good coach, but I think our current situation proves that he needs to be working under a strong GM.
     
  7. WebRaider

    WebRaider Full Access Member

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    IMO this is on the team ownership... it's been falling apart for the last several years from the top and it's showing on the field now. Money is a problem? Where does that point to? We don't have the horses overall and that will cause issues everywhere. What's the saying? You're only as strong as your weakest link? Well we have some huge holes that we weren't able to/willing to fill in the off-season and here we are. I'm sure Fox won't be overly upset if he is let go and will have some nice options down the road.

    With the new mentality that the ownership has come with as of late if we bring in a new head coach; God help'em...
     
  8. Abusive

    Abusive Fuck yo blanket

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    He definitely needed to have less influence in personnel since 2006.

    The man's not a dummy. He knows what he's doing, for better or worse. He clung onto some broken down "JFG's" in the interest of his own personal comfort level (he was almost as insane about this stuff as was George Allen). Yet, he dicked around with Jarrett for a few years, put him out there in a playoff run and allowed him to run routes and make plays. Then, who knows? Williamson's departure probably influenced things there.

    We could/should have put Foster in more situations in 2005, just as Deangelo should have been the feature-back by mid-season 2006 (perhaps he would have had Ted Washington not sat on his ankle in week 5).

    The mutual decision to pay Delhomme that kind of money after a mediocre 2008 regular season, coupled with one of the worst playoff games in NFL history, was unconscionable. Fox and Jake were married at the hip, and I have no doubt that Fox pushed like fucking hell to get that deal done, hoping it would "heal" Jake's wounds and give him the confidence going into 2009.

    No matter who's the GM, or the owner, it comes down to blocking and tackling. Fundamentally-sound football always comes to mind when you think "John Fox". The results, on the whole, speak a different story.

    They always say "I never saw a coach drop a pass." Well, on that same note, "I've never seen a GM or Owner open up 9 consecutive drives, at home--with no crowd noise, with 9 consecutive running plays, 7 of which were born out of the same goddamned formation."

    Jeff Davidson--rot in hell, you fat shit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2010
  9. Abusive

    Abusive Fuck yo blanket

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    Money's not a problem. The franchise is in better shape than 2/3 of the NFL in terms of profit margin and cash flow. The pending labor situation and Fox's contract running out was the perfect storm--one I should have taken more seriously--and has led to a poor start to what looks to be a bad year.

    I don't see ownership "falling apart". I'm not a Charlotte insider, but I believe ridding yourself of Mark Richardson can only help you as an organization, whatever business you might be in. I don't know the other brother's story, other than I hear he has more credibility and could end up owning the team when JR passes on.

    Just one of them years. :driving:
     
  10. tj21

    tj21 Moderator

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    I'm sorry, tell me again exactly why you loved having him here.
     

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