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Henning/Crossman

Discussion in 'Carolina Panthers' started by Fred Smoot's Father, Dec 17, 2006.

  1. Fred Smoot's Father

    Fred Smoot's Father the future is bright

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    Two things:

    1. For the first time in five years, I honestly feel that Henning might need to step aside. After one of several three-and-outs, I am following Smitty in the viewfinder of my binos. He walks over to McCoy in the bench, takes the motorola off the guy's head, puts it on, and mouths the words: "Get me the fucking ball."

    I'm beyond the irrational stage of anti-Henningness. We have never had concepts with this offense. We have never established a true identity. Granted, a full arsenal along the o-line and Jake healthy makes Henning look better. But even at full-song, this offense has a tendency to look flimsy.

    I feel that we need to make improvements in the scheme and play-calling flow that will allow us to continue scoring points, no matter who is hurt. In replacing DH, we risk losing very little to nothing, and stand to gain consistency and diversity.

    The fact that we do not, will not, and cannot execute HB/FB/TE screens absolutely kills us. That's on Fox directly, as well as Henning.

    2. Crossman--time for a change. Kickoff return unit is the most concerning. His only job is to manage the play of the ST. Aside from Kasay and Baker's decent average, it's been a disaster. You don't salvage disasters. You fix the shit, regardless of how you feel about someone personally.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2006
  2. stratocatter

    stratocatter Full Access Member

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    I feel like there is a lot of risk but I won't defend him. I'm tired of his playcalling in many game situations, and have been for years.

    As far as the little to no risk, I definitely feel that way about Maser. Gross has not developed, and short yardage push has been non-existent since he's been here. I'm at the point of feeling "how could our OL be any worse?", so by all means let's give someone else a chance.

    Same with the LB's, we never replaced Sam. I don't know how they could be worse with a new coach either.

    Fuck Crossman just on general principle, I'm sick of the stupid penalties committed bt ST. Next.

    And we need someone who will teach players to tackle, can we hire a tackling coach?
     
  3. magnus

    magnus Chump-proof

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    Crossman was a well touted college STs coach, so it's not as if he were completely uncredentialed. His problems have been particularly disappointing. Fox did coach him, Fox coached with him. Sunseri, same, since Sunseri was under Fox when they coached Crossman. So there's a tie there to Crossman, and that tie has to be severed. This is unacceptable play.

    Unfortunately, mediocre is acceptable from Henning. We've just never been that good offensively with him, and now we're diving back down toward the mid-20s, and were before some of these injuries. As much as people want to bag on Delhomme for being awful on 3rd down, 3rd down is a coachable situation. Coaches prepare specifically for this down and part of it is, in fact, on Henning.

    I don't know about Maser. I don't think we lose a ton by not having him here; especially without Henning here, were that to actually happen, the ties to this team aren't as strong. New guy = new approach, and I think we're able to have that need. We still have salvageable guys, and I wouldn't be unhappy with change. All the same, his guys, his new, young guys, were ready to start. Each of them, other than Butler. Mathis, Hangartner, and Montgomery have each made mistakes, but they were ready to play. I can put the blame on Maser for being a part of getting the talent that's here; I can blame him for a small part of the fuckups. But the thing is, young guys will fuck up. I don't think this one's lost his guys. He's made Wharton into a good enough tackle, when he was healthy. Gross isn't bad, he's just not what he should be, and all things equal, I think we all know JG's work ethic isn't what it could be.

    Flajole, I don't know. He wasn't our choice to be the LBs coach so he really hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt. Davis has developed, and it's hard to completely crucify Flajole for Draft or Diggs. Or even Seward, since Seward made the same mistakes the vets make. Is it preparation, over-intense play, or just player mistakes that make our LBs out of position and unable to tackle? When they're in place, they make their requisite plays. Hell, Draft is being as good a blitzer as we have.



    And since we took two coordinators to task, why not Trgo? The difference is Trgo's been there. Trgo's been 8th, 20th (04, the injuries), 3rd, and up to this week they were 10th. Top third in the league. Trgovac isn't unimpeachable, but his performance would stand up in a court of his peers.
     
  4. solarte1969

    solarte1969 ....

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    Mags, I agree.

    Henning & Crossman have their feet IN the fire, Trgo's are very close to it.
     
  5. Black&Blue

    Black&Blue NKW

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    Not upset with Trgo. Our offensive woes on 3rd down have killed our defense late in games. We've never been a great scoring team, but we at least had the ability to move the chains and sustain drives, keeping the defense fresh so they can close the game.

    That pretty much sums up 2003. Lead left, lead right with Davis 25 times a game, get enough points on the board and rely on the pass when we needed to. We don't do that anymore. Right now, Henning has to adapt to having a terrible run blocking line and a back-up quarterback who holds the football. Can't blame him too much for that. We just need to get stronger up front so we can regain our identity as a run-first offense.


    Have to shake things up at special teams, one way or another. Need a real return guy, obviously, but the blocking has been the major problem. I don't think it would make much of a difference if we had Dante Hall back there, other than making the first guy miss. After that, he would just run into three or four other unblocked defenders. Coverage units were actually acceptable until today. Is it coaching? To a degree, yes, I think so. Does Crossman have a good group to work with? Beyond the specialist (Kasay, Baker, Kyle) we don't have anybody worth mention. I think it's about 50/50, between coaching/scheme and talent. We'll just have to figure out which half needs to be replaced for next year.
     
  6. stratocatter

    stratocatter Full Access Member

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    The lack of discipline falls directly on the coaches, if it's repetitive. And it has been. LB's are not disciplined. Blown coverages, not holding their spots, not reading their keys correctly or whatever it is, and missing tackles has to go to coaching when it's not just one player, but systemic.

    If the issue is Gross's work ethic, I'd submit it's Maser's job to see that he improves it. But basically I'm sick & tired of having no up front push ever, year after year. Something must change and I don't know where else to start.

    Trogo, when has one of his D's been able to cover a TE? But the CB situation gets him a pass for now from me, I didn't expect anything good once it got to street guys on the field.
     
  7. magnus

    magnus Chump-proof

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    agree. Like I said, he's ranked 10th even now (this week precluded). We just aren't getting the turnovers, one reason or another.

    Which, anyone should be able to adjust to having our skill level talent. We're set up to pass, this year. Even our pass blocking line isn't so bad (or isn't so bad when a guy gets rid of the ball). But the run blocking isn't good, and the running game isn't good. We shouldn't have to have 11 all-pro starters for Henning to call a good game. I'm fine with him being here, but all the same, you look at his resume, all the good things here happened when Delhomme was on fire in the playoffs, or in 04.



    I don't know that we need that much talent on ST. Return unit? Sure. Though coming in, Gamble and Marshall should've been enough to take the PR job. Both showed they could do it in the past and Gamble was very good last year.
    And we do have Hankton, Ciurciu, McCadam, on this team picked for their ST ability. We do have young guys like Seward, Anderson. We do use starters like Minter, Davis, Williams. It's not like we have all skill position players out there.
     
  8. magnus

    magnus Chump-proof

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    Inevitably, it does fall on the coaches regardless.

    We've not been able to cover a TE in years. Of course, neither could Del Rio. Mike Minter, in ten years, hasn't ever done it well.
     
  9. Black&Blue

    Black&Blue NKW

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    To be fair, I think we'd have a fighting chance throwing the ball 50 times with our starter, as opposed to our back-up. Weinke just isn't very good. Fuck, the guy is 1-17. I'm not laying all of the blame on him, or taking all of it off of Henning. It's just hard to rely on a back-up this late in the season.

    More athleticism. Guys are consistantly getting beat down the field. Hankton is a good blocker down the sideline (and he's finally catching an occasional pass) but he isn't very fast and he has trouble turning to help block on the return. Ciurciu or Anderson haven't done anything. McCadam has missed a lot more plays than he's made. I think we've resorted to using Carter and Biddle as blockers and gunners just to get more speed on the field.
     
  10. Black&Blue

    Black&Blue NKW

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    It can be a natural void in our defense. We'll play cover 3 to prevent big plays, and we do a good job of that when we tackle. But good TE's like Witten can get open in the undercoverage. I don't think the position has "killed" us as much as people think, but it can be an issue from time to time. Better safety play might help.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2006

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